Pentium vs Athlon

A Mac inspired competition between PCs

[TGecho]

I'm shopping for a new computer as my faithful 3yr old 650mhz is feeling its age.
Obviously, I'm looking to buy just under the latest greatest ($600-$800 range).

So I was reading about processor brands, and came across this article: wwwDOTpcmagDOTcom/article2/0,4149,806465,00.asp

The point is that Athlon has a shorter pipeline (10, almost like the Mac's 7), and Pentium has a longer one (20). Basically, shorter means better at efficiently changing it's mind, longer means better at continuous stuff like video and other technically predicable stuff.

So I'm leaning towards an Athlon as opposed to Pentium, which I had always thought was better. I realize it won't make a huge, maybe not even a noticeable difference. But I figured, why not?

So, any thoughts? Am I overanalyzing this? Any suggestions? (Note: mac is not an option :)

[Macro]

In benchmarks an Athlon XP 3000+ will pip a 3GHz P4 to the post with raw processing power

DDR on the Althon is much mroe benefiical, as the motherboard manufacturers to a better job of using it

There are several misconceptions about processors. These are two of them. Sorry FutureX.

[netguy]

Macro, since you seem to be pretty sharp on the current pc market and benchtest results, what combination would you recommend for a high-end Intel system in the $2,500 range.

I'm currently using 2.2gh P4s, 1gb DDR ram, and 7200rpm hd with XP professional - with PhotoShop and WebTrends having the most load (the rest is mostly HomeSite, FTP transfers, and QuickBooks).

What is a well rounded package that takes advantage of the latest speed without overkill? (i.e. Raid hd, best motherboard, optimum P4 for the money, etc).

Any suggestions are welcome, as I have to purchase 2 more machines in the next few weeks.

Thanks.

[Macro]

netguy, I've no idea of prices in the US but I'll make a guess based on UK prices and current conversion rates.

For that type of money you'll expect the latest in motherboards. The new Intel chipsets only marginally beat 2 year old RDRAM based chipsets like the 850E (especially 850E with 32 bit PC 1066 RDRAM). But they do come with more features. Asus P4C800 Deluxe isn't bad. You'll expect 1394, SATA, SATA and IDE RAID, on board sound, AGP 8x, four DIMM slots...

Anything above a P4, 2.8 and the vanity premium is still a bit high. Ensure the fsb of the CPU is 800 and not 533. It may be worth paying a bit more for the Hyperthreaded 3.0 or 3.2 (not 3.06, as that's a 533 fsb)

Go for 1024 of DDR - 2 GB's not worth it. PC 3200 isn't substantially faster but CAS 2 (or 1.5) will be. A good make is VERY important - Samsung, Corsair, Micron, Kingston come to mind. A Radeon 9800 (128 MB better value methinks) or for verstility the 9700 All in Wonder or MSI Geforce Personal Cinema. The FX5900s seem to have a lot of complaints for the noise they generate. To be honest stick a cheap GeForce MX440 in there and Photoshop probably won't notice the difference.

SATA isn't much faster than IDE unless you get the Raptor drives (10K) rpm and put them in RAID 0...he, he... better than SCSI 15K :-) And all SATA drives seem to come with 8 MB cache, unlike the IDEs.

Check out Thermaltake and Coolermaster for some nice cases, quietpc.com for some wicked ideas to keep the hard disks and other parts cool + quiet PSUs (ensure PSU supports P4 and SATA), and get it all put together by someone who specialises in Perfomance PCs. That does make a difference despite the adamant denials of the casual PC assemblers.

We are yet to test Asus's new dual DDR board that supports Xeons. May be very nice, especially as Xeons have more cache, and are quite cheap now. If you did want to go the AMD route look at the nforce3 chipset boards with an Opteron. We've done tests but for competitive reasons I can't disclose too much on that right now.

Hope that helps ;-)

[netguy]

Macro... excellent list! (now I have to decipher the details and put a sharp pencil to it).

I think the only problem will be finding "someone who specializes in Perfomance PCs." (as you said, many 'think' they can build anything, but I would tend to think the difference between 'slapped together' and 'optimized' is 10 to 20% in performance).

Thanks again for your detailed input!
It is much appreciated.

Steve

[mnamesir]

Like previous posts, most users will not ever see the benefits of the high-end processors unless they are doing heavy-duty processing.
I've used both AMDs and Intels, but do prefer the Intels- only because the MBoards widely available seem to offer more features w/ the P4 - I guess for most it comes down to the chipsets.
Call me crazy, which you may do, but it would seem to me that if you can get an Intel chipset and an Intel processor together, then that may give you the most reliability. Of course there are always exceptions, but in my opinion, I would stay away from the cheaper chipsets by Via. I've had nothing but problems with my Via chipset MBs.
My most recent PC is a P4 (shift 4 is $!) with an Intel Chipset. Its got serial ATA w/raid and P-ATA 133 as well. Its an MSI Neo wi/875p shipset. Runs nice and stable.
The Raptors mentioned in the previous post are definitely worth the money - I've got mine in RAID 0 - far outweighs the choice of processing clock speed in my mind...

To stay on topic - I'd be more concerned with what you're plugging the CPU into! Spend the money on good RAM and a good MB with the features you want.

[Macro]

Steve, no problem.

OK, here are a few questions that may be worth asking. A specialist should be able to offer you a lot of information in reply to these questions without going to Google to make enquiries :-)

What is CAS latency and how does it affect performance? (lots of info on Google)

What is PCI bus mastering and does it need to be enabled in an XP PC? (lots of info on Google)

What's the data throughput for PC2700 DDRSDRAM i.e. how many MB per sec?
Eg: PC2100 is DDR 266 or 133 fsb double pumped. PC 133 pushes 1050 MB/sec, hence PC2100 = 2 x 1050 or 2100 MB/sec, hence the name. They shouldn't have trouble telling you what PC 2700 does :-)

What's the voltage on an AGP slot?

What's a swap file and is there any way to de-fragment it?

If you know the answers before you call you'll be able to tell if they're trying to bluff their way through. None of the answers are required knowledge for PC building but I would consider someone who knows the answers a cut above the rest. When I have a chance I'll compile a list of questions that I believe any "professional" PC builder MUST be able to answer. For the moment I have to get back to work ;-)

[futureX]

There are several misconceptions about processors. These are two of them. Sorry FutureX.

In benchmarks an Athlon XP 3000+ will pip a 3GHz P4 to the post with raw processing power

Its not a misconception, like I said, its a Benchmark.

[netguy]

It kind of sounds like the controversy we used to have on the farm when I was a kid.... My International Harvester's better, no.. my John Deere is better, no, my Case is better.

-They all did the job, just different strokes for different folks. ;)

[Macro]

Its not a misconception, like I said, its a Benchmark

Which one?