Question about the 'new' Inktomi...

recent article about Inktomi's traffic growth has me wondering

[patrick]

I have been a Inktomi Paid Inclusion customer (via NetSol) for a little over one year. When the renewel letters started popping on my desk over the past couple months, we decided to cancel about 60% of our listings because they really just were not performing well. Well in typical fashion, after I cancel 2 out of my 3 accounts -- I find this article [news.moneycentral.msn.com] about how Inktomi is expecting the traffic it sends its subscribers to more than double this holiday season (personally I won't believe it until I see it, but you never know).

My questions is this: In that article, Inktomi refers to it's 'Index Connect' customers being the ones that will benefit from this growth. Is that just a new name for the standard per-url paid inclusion, or are they talking about the large companys that pay to have their entire site indexed? I am pretty sure it is the large companys, but I wanted to double check -- if this traffic increase would effect per-url accounts like mine, I would have to seriously reconsider dropping the accounts.

[john316]

Index Connect is a not Pay for spidering, it is more of a direct feed.

[jeremy goodrich]

Well, that makes sense. Ink wants to double the traffic it sends to it's customers that are paying on a CPC level.

So for you & me, and everybody else that's paying for inclusion (the annual fee) we get left out in the cold.

Great news for corporates, I guess.

[patrick]

Yep, you would think if they were capable of improving traffic for their paying customers (yes, even the little guys) they would do it... in a perfect world I guess :(

[Inktomi]

Actually, growth in Search Submit leads since the year ago period is up a healthy 40%. That's lower than Index Connect's 100%, but primarily because Search Submit was already a mature product a year ago whereas Index Connect was still nascent.

Incidentally, overall e-commerce traffic is up 30% from last year, according to Nielsen/NetRatings. So Inktomi paid inclusion subscribers of both programs are beating the overall market :)

Inktomi.

[jeremy goodrich]

Since you posted, care to share on the dynamics of the results these days?

I mean, is everything in 'one big pool of data' or are there 3 pools:

ppc customers

paid to include customers

and the rest of it all.

Is that how it works now? Or...? Something a little more 'fair'.

Thanks for sharing with us, but personally, I don't care about the % increase in your paying customers

- only the % increase in traffic I'm going to get from paying you...if I decide to PAY. :)

That's what I'd like (probably all of us here, really...). If you can share it, of course.

[seth_wilde]

Thanks for sharing with us, but personally, I don't care about the % increase in your paying customers

- only the % increase in traffic I'm going to get from paying you...if I decide to PAY.

From the stats given in the article it sounds like when Inktomi says "Search Submit leads" they mean traffic, not the amount of paying customers..

[Inktomi]

From the stats given in the article it sounds like when Inktomi says "Search Submit leads" they mean traffic, not the amount of paying customers..

That's exactly right - we've been talking about the percentage increase in overall traffic to our paid inclusion subscribers, not increase in the number of subscribers. Sorry that this was not clear.

[jeremy goodrich]

Ah, I read 'leads' and thought 'your clients'.

For a moment, I was thinking you only posted to brag. Thanks for clarifying that - especially since I did just spend some money your way. :)

[mayor]

I would like to know how much Inktomi's Search Submit leads are up since early August when the Search Submit traffic going to many sites dropped an unhealthy 80% with their loss of AOL and with the gigapage indexing of all the dredgings on the web.

I'd like to know what Inktomi's Search Submit renewal rate is in the last three months since people like me decided not to renew any Search Submit pages because their ROI can not justify the big hike in fees (from $10 to $15 per page to $25 per page late last year) coupled with a big traffic plunge in August?

[Mohamed_E]

> with the gigapage indexing of all the dredgings on the web.

I can certainly understand the frustration of those who paid to be included. But I do not appreciate being called a "dredging of the web" :)

[patrick]

While it is nice to see that the traffic is up 40%, the ROI is the same which is the biggest factor is deciding weather or not to stick with Inktomi.

Is there a comprehensive list of all the sites that utilize search submit paid inclusion? MSN is the most important partner IMO, but all the ad's that appear before the Ink results make it pretty much obsolete when it gets down to it :\

[makemetop]

>all the ad's that appear before the Ink results make it pretty much obsolete when it gets down to it...

Not if you can play it right! MSN/INK traffic (excluding L$) averages a very healthy 25-30% of overall SE traffic across the board on PFI URLs (for me). Yes, I agree that the losses of other partners have been a blow, but INK still can send very good ROI traffic provided you do your research.

[kaz]

One would think that by reading this thread that Inktomi is a better value to purchase than it was a year ago. I disagree.

Yes, makemetop, good traffic can still be achieved in Inktomi ... but I find it hard to believe that anyone is finding a 40% increase in traffic within their log files derived from Inktomi... when compared to a year ago.

As mayor also stated, I found a huge drop in Inktomi traffic when compared with last year. They dropped AOL (in which they were providing primary results for awhile) and have not picked up any substantial partners that provide traffic.

I'd like to see more data/proof reegarding this huge jump as my own experiences paying for many sites to be included within Ink are the opposite.

Perhaps those experiencing a 40% increase in Ink traffic could share there experiences. Anyone? I'm sure there must be a ton of people enjoying this huge windfall ... anyone?

[powerstar]

We are on Index Connect our traffic is down 75% the last few months. Where is the increase in traffic?

[stcrim]

Ok - I'll bite - Inktomi lost AOL, MSN is covered up in directory and PPC listings. Where is an additional 40 percent coming from?

The assumption is that when INK had AOL and MSN (plus a few low traffic sites) they were delivering 100 surfers - now without AOL and the addition of Overture listing sitting on top of every page they claim to be delivering 140 surfers.

That's 40 additional surfers for every 100 they did have and no new source for that traffic...

Am I missing something?

huh?

-s-

[skibum]

Another way to look at it and slow the spin might be:

Beginning time period in survey:

100 PFI customers = 10,000 total referrals

100 IC customers = 100,000 total referrals

Ending time in survey:

200 PFI customers = 14,000 total referrals

300 IC customers = 200,000 total referrals

PFI "leads" are up 40%

In this scenario IC leads are up 100%, PFI leads are up 40%.

What was that someone said about lies, damn lies and statistics? Jiggle the numbers around, compare apples to organges, and the conclusion drawn can be most anything.

A "mature" product is often something that is nearing market saturation, which means growth in sales tends to slow. One that is not so mature tends to have more sales growth.

I'd tend to think that if traffic or "leads" to the same pages were measured at the beginning and the end of this study, the increases mentioned may not be so impressive.

It appears to be a press release and not an article.

.02

[eugenebarnes]

My experience with Inktomi Search Submit has not been very impressive. Among the sites I manage, it seems the better they do in Google, the worse they do in Inktomi.

I'm certainly not seeing a growth in Inktomi traffic from where I sit.

[miles]

Yeah the 40% seems to be way off. As stated before I dont see how you can say you are going to generate more traffic from nothing. Inktomi really doesnt offer anything useful for the price they charge per inclusion. Inktomi had their day in the sun and now that day has past.

Over the past year I have not seen any major traffic generated from Inktomi, for any of my customers sites. That includes some of the ones that are/were positioned well for competitive keywords, not just the cheesy keywords. The traffic that was generated was/is very minute and to top it off Inktomi does not have the engines that it used to have. Which is the main problem, if you do not have a good foundation your plan will topple.

It seems to me to be some slick talk to boost the price of stock for a short time and then poop out in a few months. However I could be way off, but I dont think so in this matter. Inktomi is not worth it any more.

[sheilarae]

Our traffic with Inktomi direct has gone up 28% since december 1st, our traffic has been steady & sales are also up 15%.

Just in time for the buying holiday season!

sheila

[stcrim]

sheilarae

Welcome to the PFI forum of WebmasterWorld - Is that increase in traffic from pages you already had paid for in INK and they are just doing better or are they new pages you have paid for since December?

-s-

[sheilarae]

thanks and i am a huge fan of webmasters , it gives me great info!

it is from the same urls we have had with inktomi for over a year, traffic is just coming flowing, which works great for us!

esp at holiday season everyone can use the boost in sales!

[Jester]

Hi, I'm seeing the opposite of an increase in traffic. In fact several of my pay for submission pages have dropped off the radar screen completely as of this morning. Hoping it is temporary but not sure at this point.

[mattb]

Decrease in traffic here for existing URL's in the Pay for Spidering scheme. A closer look at MSN serps and it seems that there are a lot more Look Smart directory listings coming online in the past 30 days.

[duhboy]

I am about to enter the PFI scheme with Inktomi.
This thread really makes me wonder if it is worth it.
What is the straight goods to present to a client?
Thanks, D.

[stcrim]

duhboy -

There are so many factors it's difficult so say. If your kws are very competitive, INK may be a complete waste of money - becasue you will have Overture and directory listings sitting on top.

On the other hand, if they are long phrases people rarely look for you may do very well. Example: "Lemon Ice Cream in Denver"

The listings sitting on top of most Ink listins are Overture so you may want to consider them too...

-s-

[patrick]

For us, it is one of those things where we know it does not perform well for us -- but we still subscribe to it as kind of a counter-measure in case any of our competitors aggressively persue Inktomi. I still think MSN is a very important referrer, but you really just need to worry about the PPC's for that, unless you have some fairly obscure keywords.

[duhboy]

Thanks all
stcrim- this is exactly it. The way I see it, I want to bullseye those people
looking for 'blue widgits with dots' because that is one of the items I sell.
If I attract a small but highly focussed market, it seems preferable to showing up in less relevant SERPS.

As well, the small investment (for some sights)at Ink lasts a year. I should think that it will provide an opportunity to modify pages and observe results.

Could I ask someone to fill me in on how one manages Overture bid scheduling?
I understand that this is critical to the program.
I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Thanks, D.:)

[SEP_entp]

Regardless of participation in any direct inclusion program... conversion - "search to sales" is the ultimate prize. It is numbers, but in this case - specific numbers, and although many go online and read about how great these programs may be - it is the "management" of those programs that yield the greatest returns. Even with a slow sales cycle or matured product offering, the understanding, management and research of relevant "sales oriented information" prior to submission using direct inclusion programs makes or breaks...not that you get lucky after you sign up.

I like the opportunity to "level" the playing field - regardless of business size - the opportunity is still there - it is up to you to develop it. As far as I am concerned it is still "sales as usual".