INK Drifting IN / OUT at MSN

MSN on again/off again for INK large DB

[gil]

For the past several hours MSN has been shuffling back and forth between INKs large (production DB) and the permanent DB.

I do my normal 'test' searches one time and all my pages appear, then five minutes later its back to the small DB with none of my supplemental pages.

I checked Canada.com a few times and they seem to be on the large DB all day sofar.

Anyone else seeing this?

Gil

[Kamikaze]

Do you think that there is a possibility that they are trying to merge these two databases? I'm starting to see my pages in the "old" database in MSN. But not just ranked as high it is in the "new" database.

[DavidP]

MSN seemed to be doing the same thing for a while yesterday as well - I didn't notice the same for some of the other Ink partners.

It looks like MSN UK has been reverting for some hours at a time over the last three days, although it's been out of sync with the movements at MSN.COM.

[drbill]

This sounds like the same thing that happend last week with INK at AOL.. do a search om MSN and check the results and then just punch the search bttn again and you will see a different set of results. strange but this is wwaht AOL was doing last week.. It will settle down (HOPE) :(

[gil]

I have checked Hotbot, Anzwers and Canada several times today and they all seem to be stabile with the LARGE database. MSN was still on the small DB a few minutes ago when I checked. I have heard the large DB called the production DB and the small one the permanent DB....anyone know which is really correct? I usually refer to them as the 'large' and 'small' db.

Gil

[drbill]

Gil I do the same as everyone has a different opinon on what to call the.. I call them the Large(good) and the Small (Bad) databases :)

[gil]

AOL seems to be following the same pattern as MSN. A WWW search on AOL brings up the small database. Earlier this AM it was on the Large DB.

I wonder if the large portals (MSN and AOL) simply overwhelm the INK servers at certain times and they then revert to the smaller DB to conserve resources? I have seen this pattern in the past at MSN but may have missed it at AOL in the past because we are well positioned in the first part of an AOL search.

Gil

[gil]

Just checked my sites again and MSN is still on INKs small DB.
HotBot, Canada and Anzwers still OK on the large DB.

I *wonder* if there may be some kind of a financial reason for this like the small DB costs less than the large one for the subscribing portal ???

Gil

[drbill]

I read somewhere that AOL Ink database gets over 5 billion searches a month or was it a day can't remember..

[stcrim]

DavidP,

Welcome to WW's INKTOMI forum.

Steve

[DavidP]

Thanks Steve.

Still drifting at MSN, although at least it comes back.

[stcrim]

We got good MSN traffic yesterday, but each time we checked only our home page(s) was showing... )timing( go figure...

Steve

[gil]

MSN was on the good (large) DB this morning but AOL was still
on the bad (small) DB when I checked at aound 8:30AM. Goto.com
was also on the bad db. Hotbot, Iwon, Canada and Anzwers all OK
on the large DB.

I will apply for a course in wizardry soon so I have some hope of making some sense of this pattern.

Gil

[drbill]

Hey Steve, What is good traffic from MSN? if may ask :) I have no idea how much is good and when i should just give up.

[DavidP]

Yesterday was a reasonable day for MSN. I just love those moments when you can search the index a few minutes apart to find your pages not there, but then see referrals in the logs....

drbill, MSN Ink can be very generous and pip AV for us on a good day for pages with similar ranking.

[cyberbear]

I know what you mean about Inktomi MSN freaking me out. My traffic is still good but this is what I say last night. I would search for one of keyword phrases that was always no. 1 and it wouldnt be there. I would search immediately again and there it was. Then back and forth in what I thought was switching back and forth between databases every second search. I am glad that Yahoo is now using google as my traffic is slamming and they seemed to be indexing new sites within a few weeks. I agree with Brett that Iktomi is not worth paying for without Yahoo. Loosing yahoo has made them loose their edge.

[stcrim]

drbill,

First of all - never give up. It's real hard to say what good traffic from MSN is. We use get a hit or two a day from MSN and now we get a couple of thousand a day on one site and varying amounts on others. It took a lot of time for this to happen. I think there's a lot to be said for a site that is seasoned or aged (at least with ink).

Two years ago I would never have dreamed we could be getting the traffic we are now getting - most of the effort and result have been from the past 6 months. WE have had site after site dropped time and time again - and when that would happen we just re-submit and start a new...

There is a lot to be said for pages that pull traffic and knowing your page(s) work in the INK model before building lots and lots of them.

The only time I am sure a site isn't going to work is when the developer gives up - so don't. Half the fun is the chase - the other half is seeing it work...

Steve

[Kamikaze]

Strange... for couple of minutes, every time I did a search on a certain kw, there was a database switch everytime I hit "refresh". A few minutes later when I was trying to show that to my friend, it switched back to the "new" database and didn't switch to the old. Weird... What are they trying to aim for?

[stcrim]

Kamikaze,

Just had the same experience while trying to show a client some results via the phone. She was seeing one thing while my results were different... On refresh each would change - go figure...

Steve

[appraiser]

Dear friends,

Let Us Pray

Blessed art thou O Inktomi our god(dess?)who bringest forth hits from the ether.

Amen

:)

[jilly]

appraiser:

That won't work, I know, I've tried it. The SE Gods must be very angry right now. Steve, are we allowed to burn offerings in the forum? <ducking>

Jill

[stcrim]

Jilly,

Sure, and while you and appraiser are burning the place down, let's try renaming a folder or two that some of your pages are in and then resubmitting them. Did you get my e-mail about that Jilly?

To beat tonight, catch me in the morning and let's put this together

Steve

[pete]

Hi Jilly & Steve.

Jilly, I feel your pain regarding Ink - I have always struggled with Ink.

Regards to MSN and Ink - most of our traffic for this engine comes from the looksmart listings.

For those of you have good listings in Looksmart & Ink. (propably most of you! :) )Interested to know to what extent MSN accounts for your overall traffic and what % of the MSN traffic comes from Ink. or Looksmart.

Thanks
Pete

[appraiser]

Pete -

Regarding MSN traffic.

When all my pages are fully indexed on MSN, it outpulls all other se's combined, all from Ink database. About 50%-55% of my total traffic is se generated, so MSN accounts for about 25% of total on good days. The reason MSN is so strong is most of my users probably don't know how to reset their home page in IE. :) So they're all starting from MSN. A significant portion, 10-20% of total MSN traffic, also comes from the autosearch, where the user types keywords in IE address window.

Today is a bad day, only my index page is indexed on MSN, and because it's a toc with a bunch of different topics, it doesn't rank high for any keywords. When this happens, MSN traffic goes to zero. I'm listed in Looksmart, but rank low for same reason.

I hate Microsoft, but like everybody else, I'm dependant on the sob's.

[drbill]

Well MSN is 35% of my traffic and AOL backend is about 35% of my INK traffic. MSN seems to be one a 1:10 ratio 1 out of ten times do I get the Large DB. AOL has nothing only small..I have seen a lot of people post "How do I get into the small DB" But no one has ever had an answer. or maybe I missed it .. If anybody knows how I would really appreciate the info :)

[gil]

Hi drbill;

From what I've seen, I think INK keeps the root (home) page in the small DB and the supplemental stuff in the large. We just posted our site in February and got the root page in almost immediately bu inspite of multiple submissions to all of the usual sources (anzwers, hotbot, canada, goto) our supplemental pages always remain in the elusive larghe DB. I am seriously thinking of setting up multiple domains so each of my supplemental pages can be their own root page. I only have about six / ten pages I want in the small DB so this may work.
This is only my observation for my site and it may be different for others.

Regards,
Gil

[NFFC]

>If anybody knows how I would really appreciate the info

I wish I could tell you, the difficulty being that all the domains I have in the permanent dB have *two* factors;

1.The longer the page has been in the dB the more chance it will be a part of the permanent.

2.Domains with better link pop [better = quality] are more likely to be in the permanent.

The problem is that to an extent the two go hand in hand. It could be a combination of both.

[drbill]

Gil,
>I am seriously thinking of setting up multiple domains so each
of my supplemental pages can be their own root page.<

I have tried the above and it does not get you listed :( All My pages are root pages. and that still done not get you listed in the SMALL DB. i have over 6000 links from other sites pointing to each of my domains and still nothing..

NFFC I think you have got it... I think that if you can stay in the Large DB for longer than 2 months then you will get in to the small one. But then again I have no idea anymore.. I have even tried a Spider Dance and still no listing in the Small DB.. Damn there has to be a way of getting in it?

[tigger]

drbill

I think's inktomi's way of saying "get ready to get your cheque book out, if you want rankings that stay"

think it's time to open the vodka, after a very long hard week.

anyone fancy a drink !!!!! :)

[stcrim]

tigger,

Yep - pour me one! And while you're at it, remember each of INKs portals has control over their results and filtering abilities - the simple answer is, they are working.

We just moved 4 CGI driven databases to a new host - then brought them up one at a time. People trying to access those databases experienced the same frustration we do when ink or one of their portals makes changes - steve