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Local Headline: "Litterbugs To Be Fined"

how to eliminate crime

         

lawman

7:33 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yesterday our local newspaper had an article about strict enforcement of the littering ordinance. A police officer noted that neighborhoods strewn with litter also have high crime rates.

I'm so glad the local constables figured out that serious crime could be eliminated by fining litterbugs. :)

Marcia

7:46 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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People have been killed in fist-fights over parking spaces in New York City, which could be the filthiest, most littered city there is. They might just have something there.

Now if they'd allocate some funds for public education and distribution of pooper scoopers they'd have a top ten model community on their hands. Real estate values would boom.

digitalghost

7:56 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I love those leaps of logic. A study in L.A. concluded that areas with lots of graffiti were more apt to have high rates of gang violence. Eliminating the graffiti caused gang violence to escalate, as gang rivals met in areas to retag their turf.

Ya think that litter is an indicator, say of apathy, and not the cause of violence? Hmm, I'm gonna ponder that one while I cut up a few trees.

andrea99

8:10 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)



Ridicule notwithstanding, it's true.

Areas where respect for law and property are flouted by grafitti and litter are more prone to crime. People have more respect for themselves and others when in a more orderly environment.

It is known as the "broken window theory" and is widely accepted.

People who like to break windows and vandalize with grafitti naturally scoff, but they are wrong.

jimbeetle

8:11 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I read an article in the Rockefeller Center house magazine some 10 or so years ago. Written by the then head of security, he stated that the most important factor in keeping the Center basically free of problems was to keep it clean and well maintained.

His theory was that people tend to act according to their surroundings. People are more apt to litter if there is already litter on the ground. Three broken windows in a row? Why not sling a rock through the fourth?

Bryant Park behind the NY Public Library is another example. In the '80s it was one of the most dirty, dreary, crime-ridden spots in the heart of Midtown. After they spiffed it up and keep it clean and well maintained it's now one of the most popular gathering spots in the area.

But, the key to it all is the maintenance. You can't just go in, clean up an area, leave, then blame folks when it reverts to where it was.

lawman

8:41 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Since there aren't enough police officers to do the enforcement, they are going to use city employees to report violations.

Today I saw a city employee throw a cigarette butt out of his city-owned truck.

Syzygy

10:41 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yesterday our local newspaper had an article about strict enforcement of the littering ordinance.

London's Oxford Street has - based on various newspaper articles I've read over the years - introduced similar legislation on umpteen occasions now. Each time the story slightly changes; one year it was cigarettes (instant £10 fine for dropping your cigarette butt on the pavement/road even though there was nowhere to put your ciggy out except the floor), another year it was rubbish/litter per-se.

However, not once have these laws been enforced. In the case of Oxford Street, it's all for dramatic effect - to gain media coverage; to draw attention - to encourage people to go shopping/eating/drinking there.

Perhaps the same ploy is being used elsewhere with equally ineffective results...

Syzygy

treeline

11:52 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The problem with all these articles is...

Do litterbugs read?

Or just pitch the paper out the window?

bedlam

12:44 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Ridicule notwithstanding, it's true ... It is known as the "broken window theory" and is widely accepted.

Based on what I can discover about the "broken window theory [google.ca]" you might also refer to it as "cum hoc ergo propter hoc [google.ca]" - also known colloquially as "confusing correlation with causation [google.ca]"

-B

ken_b

12:52 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I've been hanging around this place too much. I read this....


Local Headline: "Litterbugs To Be Fined"

as this....

Local (Search) Headline: "(Internet) Litterbugs To Be Fined"

(I must really need a hobby...... sigh.)

andrea99

1:12 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)



Based on what I can discover about the "broken window theory" you might also refer to it as "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" - also known colloquially as "confusing correlation with causation"

A case of very shallow research on your part bedlam, you should look a little deeper than a Google search.

Did you read the book? Did you know it was a book? It's in English, not Latin.

Automan Empire

2:45 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Actually, Bedlam's response was spot on- I was going to say that!

The broken windows theory was treated as gospel for years; now there are refutations and competing theories.

This is a combination of well meaning but misguided people pushing through legislation, and politicians always eager for a chance to showboat how hard they are working to "clean up" the neighborhood. Like many grandstanding programs, this will create a short-term buzz, but because it does not address the underlying causes of neighborhood decline, the net effect may be zero if not worse (due to diversion of resources from more effective programs.)

Don't get me wrong- urban pride, and getting people to feel connected to and proud of their communities are all well and good. Just understand that I have LIVED IT! After 15 years in a declining neighborhood, it is sad to see over and over, an area cleaned to be littered upon within minutes, or a wall cleaned only to be sprayed with graffiti overnight. Some people simply do not care about the world and people around them, and it is fantasy to think that cleaning an area and fining litterbugs will make those people want to care.
The littering ordinance is a good start- it would be nice if they withheld the fanfare until AFTER positive results have been obtained. There is something particularly immoral about politicians imposing a new program upon the public, and lavishing praise upon themselves for all the good their efforts will supposedly have in the future-because they seldom do the good promised despite the costs.