Permission for robot tech to use deadly force on civilians?

Actual news out of SF...

[Sgt_Kickaxe]

God help us - [msn.com...]

San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

By robots they mean drones.

"I was sitting on the restaurant patio having lunch yesterday and the guy at the next table got droned, can you believe he dared sit so close to me after scaring that officer an hour earlier?" or "Tune in to drone TV for exciting..." bleh, you get the idea.

I just don't see that being normalised but this is actual news today suggesting it might become normal?! It's apparently happening over in Ukraine so the tech exists but C'mon. SF isn't a writeoff yet, I'm sure there are still brave officers somewhere.

Excuse me while I go watch Demolition Man again. Who knew a Stalone + Snipes Sci-Fi movie from 1993 could be the blueprint for where we're headed.

[Sgt_Kickaxe]

More info. The Romotec robots SF already has, and are asking for permission to use on people, are made by Northrop Grumman, Army division - [army-technology.com...]

Until now if army was needed army was called. Cities militarizing police to use killer remote robots is not something I thought I'd ever see.

[martinibuster]

That is an exaggeration of the situation, fantasy. It does not reflect the reality.

The fact is that the SFPD is asking permission [sfgate.com] to use a device as a last resort option.

The emphasis is on last resort and to prevent a loss of life. Two conditions.

That is a far cry from the robocop scenario.

This is the wording:

"Robots will only be used as a deadly force option when risk of loss of life to members of the public or officers are imminent and outweigh any other force option available to SFPD."

The liberal board of supervisors will vote on the request next week. A similar proposal across the bay in Oakland was stopped. [sfchronicle.com]

"A new draft policy [sfgov.legistar.com] would, for the first time, allow the San Francisco Police Department's robots to use lethal force against suspects as a last-resort option."

By the way, this technology is already in use in the more conservative city of Dallas [reuters.com], where it was used to kill a sniper that had shot five police officers. Just pointing out that this is not a first. But it is unusual in a liberal city such as San Francisco.

1. This is not a done deal, it is not currently happening.
2. This is a proposal.
3. The decision is up to a liberal supervisor board in arguably the most liberal city in the USA.
4. The request is for use only as a last resort to prevent the loss of life.

[Jonesy]

The fact is that the SFPD is asking permission [sfgate.com] to use a device as a last resort option.

Tent, camel's nose.

[lucy24]

Given American police departments’ well-documented record of accurately assessing when deadly force is necessary, what could possibly go wrong?

[tangor]

The T-1000 is just around the corner. :(

[ronin]

See:

We didn’t expect a Campaign to Stop Killer Robots to be needed in the world - but it is. [...] the Stop Killer Robots coalition works to ensure human control in the use of force. Our campaign calls for new international law on autonomy in weapons systems.

Source: [stopkillerrobots.org...]

and:

we are working for an international legal instrument that prohibits machines that determine whom to kill and requires meaningful human control over the use of force.

Source: [stopkillerrobots.org...]

[Sgt_Kickaxe]

So if a robot ends someone's life is it the robot's fault? or the operator doing what they were told? or their boss who did what they were told? None of which actually commited the act ?! Who gets the blame, and punishment... and where are the incentives NOT to repeat....

The fact mainstream media is silent on this, and the general public is still unaware, tells you there is a problem imo.

The legal issues have not been resolved, that doesn't seem to matter anymore. It should.

[ronin]

So if a robot ends someone's life is it the robot's fault?

Literally nothing is a robot's fault.

A washing machine is a robot which rinses and washes laundry.

A kettle is a robot which heats water.

If your cotton socks shrink, it's not the washing machine's fault.

If someone gets scalded, it's not the kettle's fault.

[martinibuster]

Quite likely the most liberal board of supervisors in the United States reversed themselves and are voting against it. I was surprised they voted for it the first time because, having lived in San Francisco, I know how extremely liberal (and also 15 years ahead of the rest of the USA) that city can get.

But as I noted above, this is old news, it's already in use in Dallas.


[theguardian.com...]

[Kendo]

Wow. If they start killing their own kind, our garbage bins are in trouble.

[phranque]

was surprised they voted for it the first time...

me too!

it's already in use in Dallas

this is my "not surprised" face...

[Sgt_Kickaxe]

Quite likely the most liberal board of supervisors in the United States reversed themselves and are voting against it. I was surprised they voted for it the first time because, having lived in San Francisco, I know how extremely liberal (and also 15 years ahead of the rest of the USA) that city can get.

I hope you're wrong about how 15 years ahead of the rest of the country SF is. You need the SF SnapCrap app to walk downtown apparently.