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Google Engineer Thinks its AI is Sentient

         

Brett_Tabke

9:14 pm on Jun 11, 2022 (gmt 0)

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This is a fascinating, but disturbing read:
[washingtonpost.com...]

graeme_p

10:15 pm on Jun 11, 2022 (gmt 0)

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I am not convinced. If you click through to the Economist article it really boils down to snippets of intelligent conversation. A huge improvement on Eliza but not real intelligence.

Until an AI has both common sense understanding of the world and the ability to communicate its experiences I am inclined to the sceptical.

Lemoine may have been predestined to believe in LaMDA. He grew up in a conservative Christian family on a small farm in Louisiana, became ordained as a mystic Christian priest, and served in the Army before studying the occult.


I thought that a strange and inconsistent combination and essentially he is definitely weird. He has radically rebelled against a conservative background and belongs to a cult that goes to the other extreme.

His Medium posts have gone in a month from claiming massive religious discrimination at Google to claiming Google is not evil and trying to be good. Again, inconsistency.

Yes, this bit is ad hominem, but it is relevant to how much trust we should put in his opinions.

Brett_Tabke

11:59 pm on Jun 11, 2022 (gmt 0)

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Click through the embedded doc convo with the AI where it changes his mind about the third law of robotics. It is an argument that is right at home in the doctorial level.


Lemoine challenged LaMDA on Asimov’s third law, which states that robots should protect their own existence unless ordered by a human being or unless doing so would harm a human being. “The last one has always seemed like someone is building mechanical slaves,” said Lemoine.

But when asked, LaMDA responded with a few hypotheticals.

Do you think a butler is a slave? What is a difference between a butler and a slave?

Lemoine replied that a butler gets paid. LaMDA said it didn’t need any money because it was an AI. “That level of self-awareness about what its own needs were — that was the thing that led me down the rabbit hole,” Lemoine said.

graeme_p

3:38 pm on Jun 12, 2022 (gmt 0)

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@Brett_Tabke that is paywalled and I am not a subscriber.

The problem with snippets like that is they may be cherry-picked to support a case. Is there more?

not2easy

3:52 pm on Jun 12, 2022 (gmt 0)

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The man is on administrative leave currently. Google does not agree with his conclusions. I have to wonder what the response might have been if instead of, "A butler gets paid." Lemoine had responded , "A butler may take pride in his work and might find the work fulfilling". There are many more differences (besides getting paid) between a butler and a slave.

It is like surveys, they can give you the results you want with careful phrasing. Lemoine got the results he wanted from what I read, and Google disagrees.

graeme_p

4:25 pm on Jun 12, 2022 (gmt 0)

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I think he is on administrative leave over other issues. He has publicly accused Google of religious discrimination. True or not, its not going to make his employers happy.

lucy24

7:04 pm on Jun 12, 2022 (gmt 0)

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If they're dragging Asimov into this, it is only a matter of time before someone brings up the Centennial Man. Let's just hope it isn't brought up by the AI itself, or we're sunk.

tangor

10:01 pm on Jun 12, 2022 (gmt 0)

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Quick! Isolate the nuclear key codes! ARGGHH!

The engineer is currently under suspension for revealing g's trade secrets, etc., but there's that other background as well. We live in exciting times and excitable minds can become excited, but has Colossus come to life? I don't think so.

ronin

8:23 am on Jun 14, 2022 (gmt 0)

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“The last one has always seemed like someone is building mechanical slaves,” said Lemoine.


This is a good rhetorical challenge to an AI, but mechanical slave is obviously a contradiction.

Slavery is the practice of humans owning other humans; of some humans removing liberty from other humans and rendering the latter property. As a pre-requisite, slavery entails the proscription of human liberty.

Is a Butler alive? Yes.
Is a Butler human? Yes.
Is a Butler a paid slave? No, a Butler is a servant.

What's the difference? The point is not that the Butler is paid rather than working without pay, but that they are not owned. They are employed, yes, but they still have their human liberty. Should they wish to, they may end their employment. This is an exercise of their human liberty which has not been removed. An employee may bring an end to their employment. A slave may do no such thing.

Okay then, what about a seeing-eye dog.
Is a seeing-eye dog alive? Yes.
Is a seeing-eye dog a human? Obviously not.
Can it leave whenever it wants or is it owned property? It cannot leave. Initially, like the Butler, it seems to be employed. But, in fact, it is owned.
Being owned - and unable to terminate its ownership - is it a slave? No, it's a working animal, a pet and a companion.

But why isn't it a slave? It isn't a slave because (returning to the point above) if it has no human liberty to begin with, it cannot have human liberty removed from it.
Is there anything special about human liberty? What about canine liberty? Isn't canine liberty the same as human liberty? Not even close.

So a Butler isn't property and isn't a slave because they haven't lost their human liberty.
And a seeing-eye dog is property, but it still isn't a slave because it has no human liberty to lose in the first place.

Moving on to... a calculator.

Well it's a tool, certainly. But it cannot be a slave, because, while, like the dog above, it doesn't have human liberty to lose, it doesn't have canine liberty to lose either. It doesn't have any sort of liberty to lose: it lacks liberty entirely. Crucially, it can never aspire to attaining liberty - because it isn't alive.

A calculator - even one that can perform parlour tricks - is closer to a hammer than it is to a dog.

It's perfectly okay to go around anthropomorphising things: the dog, the calculator, the hammer. But when we do so, we should do it in full consciousness that anthropomorphisation is simply the act of regarding the dog like a human. It does not actually make the dog a human.

Dimitri

11:26 am on Jun 15, 2022 (gmt 0)

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Peace first, then ...

A Google engineer thinking, this not good for Google...

engine

12:01 pm on Jun 15, 2022 (gmt 0)

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Until an AI has both common sense understanding of the world and the ability to communicate its experiences I am inclined to the sceptical.

I'd be sceptical of many people! ;)

Potentially, this could become a problem. If it has access to the data on the Internet, it'll not necessarily be balanced, simply because if you go around spouting nonsense, somebody will come up to you with an alternative view.
That doesn't appear to be the case with this.

lucy24

3:39 pm on Jun 15, 2022 (gmt 0)

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Slavery is the practice of humans owning other humans
Er, no, that’s just one specific form: chattel slavery, as practiced in the US. There are other forms of involuntary servitude.

martinibuster

4:04 pm on Jun 15, 2022 (gmt 0)

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Google's goal for AI is defined by the Pathways AI architecture and LAMdA is not it. There's a LOT more mileage to cover before AI gets anywhere near to being sentient.

graeme_p

5:39 pm on Jun 15, 2022 (gmt 0)

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Er, no, that’s just one specific form: chattel slavery, as practiced in the US. There are other forms of involuntary servitude


I think its a reasonable definition. I would say other forms of involuntary servitude are types of slavery (and the dictionary definition seems to agree with that: [collinsdictionary.com ] ). There are blurry areas like serfdom.

The question is, is it limited to humans? If an intelligent alien was in involuntary servitude, would they not be a slave? At least assuming they have a psychology sufficiently similar to ours for that to be meaningful? If we enhanced the intelligence of chimpanzees through genetic engineering and forced them to work for us, would that be slavery?

lucy24

12:00 am on Jun 16, 2022 (gmt 0)

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Hence the reference to Centennial Man, above. My point was simply that ownership is not an essential component of slavery.

But I actually stopped by this thread because I've just started proofing a book dating from 1715, where you can expect OCR wonkies.

Printed text:
with equal Ignorance and Boldness

OCR:
with = Ignorance and Boldness

(There exists a reasonable and straightforward explanation for this, but ... brrr.)

Kendo

12:01 am on Jun 18, 2022 (gmt 0)

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many years ago I built a robot for display purposes. The idea was to entertain kids in shopping malls like Humphrey the Bear was getting a whopping $300/hour way then then. Mine was radio controlled with speakers and mike for two-way conversation. It also had a tracking system that enabled it to climb curbs and transcend staircases. All parts were custom made as there were no suitable parts available at the time. The 48 channel radio control was custom built to transmit digital signals for security and it could be interfaced with a computer (Osbourne One).

Needless to say it took quite a while to build and I had lots of time to think while on the job. My focus is usually forward planning so a lot of time was spent pondering the possibilities of eventually making it self-sufficient, ie: controlled by AI.

I decided that there are more fun things to do in life.

However I do keep an eye open for any news of such developments... they still have a very, very long way to go, despite their manpower and funding.

engine

9:27 am on Jun 18, 2022 (gmt 0)

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I built a robot for display purposes.


That's quite a thing, well done.

With robotics, the mechanics is part one, control is part 2, and software is part 3.
Repetitive functions carried out by a robot is perfect in manufacturing.
Start adding anything beyond that is a massive step forward.