Are we online too much?

[LifeinAsia]

I spent an hour in the bank with my dad, as he had to transfer some money. I couldn't resist myself and asked...''Dad, why don't we activate your internet banking?''

''Why would I do that?'' He asked...

''Well, then you wont have to spend an hour here for things like transfer. You can even do your shopping online. Everything will be so easy!''

I was so excited about initiating him into the world of Net banking.

He asked ''If I do that, I wont have to step out of the house?

''Yes, yes''! I said. I told him how even grocery can be delivered at door now and how Amazon delivers everything!"

His answer left me tongue-tied. He said ''Since I entered this bank today, I have met four of my friends, I have chatted a while with the staff who know me very well by now.
You know I am alone...this is the company that I need. I like to get ready and come to the bank. I have enough time, it is the physical touch that I crave.
Two years back I got sick, The store owner from whom I buy fruits, came to see me and sat by my bedside and cried.
When your Mom fell down few days back while on her morning walk, our local grocer saw her and immediately got his car to rush her home as he knows where I live.
Would I have that 'human' touch if everything became online?
Why would I want everything delivered to me and force me to interact with just my computer?
I like to know the person that I'm dealing with and not just the 'seller'. It creates bonds of Relationships.
Does Amazon deliver all this as well?'''

Technology isn't life..

Spend time with people .. Not with devices.

Writer: Unknown

[engine]

Theres no question, "we" are, however, many people don't realise it. Younger people have grown up with tech and don't see the problems.

[ronin]

I agree without hesitation it's important - vital - for all of us to spend time with other people.

To talk, to laugh, to brainstorm plans and ideas, to share experiences, to get things off our chests, to console each other, to have legendary holidays and nights out that you're all still talking about years later, to be introduced to new people by people we already know.

To meet and catch up with those four friends while out and about - yes, this is incredibly important.

But... bank staff? A store owner? The local grocer?

I would have thought that the benefit of ordering groceries online is not that you never go out of your own house (and thus never speak to the local grocer), but that you have now reclaimed the time you would have spent going to the local grocer or the bank and can now spend that time walking, going out for a meal, going to the gym, playing a board game, going for a bike ride, going to the pub, having a pizza and movie night etc. with your actual friends and their friends.

Spend time with people .. Not with devices.

Use devices so you can bank time and then spend that time with people you really want to spend it with.

[Marshall]

Spend time with people .. Not with devices.

Nice sentiment, but I hive noticed that the people who spend time with people are also holding a device in their hand and are only half (or less) engaging with those around them. How often does a family sit down to dinner and everyone is looking at a screen. Yes, we spend too much time online.

[ronin]

I hive noticed that the people who spend time with people are also holding a device in their hand and are only half (or less) engaging with those around them.

Suggestion for a new social protocol for the 2020s:

When two or more people meet up, the first cultural norm prior to greeting / shaking hands etc. is to turn devices off.

The only reason why people haven't started doing this (yet) is because no cultural precedent has yet been set.

[engine]

is to turn devices off.

For some people I know, that just won't happen. Their mobile devices would need surgical removal, along with treatment for the addiction. I say it in jest, but, really, some people have lost the ability to communicate in any other way than via their devices and social media.
I believe it's a problem for the human race.

[martinibuster]

Where does one start with an essay like that?

This is the kind of improbable fiction Mark Twain used to satirize in his short stories and essays only it goes way beyond anything he ever read.

Who goes on a morning walk and just happens to fall down (AND stay down) right in front of their grocery store? LOL!

Local merchants (sometimes) get to know their customers but they don't go cry at their their customers bedside. What kind of relationship is the author hinting at?

Who runs into friends at their bank, let alone four friends, what are the odds?

What is the deal with with the senior citizen who goes to the bank for the "physical touch?" What does that even mean? Is he shaking the teller's hand and giving her palm a creepy tickle?

...it is the physical touch that I crave.

What kind of mind writes this trivial and sentimental junk?

Every generation has the geezer railing against the radio, then the TV then video games, next the Internet but this essay is a next-level mind-troll.

This essay is masterful trolling, there are so many seniors falling down and unable to get up, sickness, bedside tears, desperate physical touches and senior loneliness. The only thing missing is dying puppies.

Oh man, this troll-essay (which is all over the Internet) should win a prize.

Thanks for the laugh! :)

LMFAO

[thecoalman]

These services are helpful for a lot of people but overall I'd agree with the point. I was talking to a kid the other day about school and he stated he "missed going to school because he missed his friends." I immediately thought to myself when I was his age I couldn't wait to get out of school to interact with friends. Even if you were playing video games on the the Atari you had to physically be there.

Who runs into friends at their bank, let alone four friends, what are the odds?

Probably depends on your locality but I work at a local hardware/Stihl/bicycle store in a small town that does well. While customers seeing 4 friends is unlikely certainly meeting up with someone they know happens frequently. It's a daily occurrence.

[martinibuster]

There are inconsistencies.

In one sentence the old man is quoted saying he lives alone:

"You know I am alone..."

But in the next paragraph he notes how his wife had fallen down and was rushed to the home that the father and mother share.

"When your Mom fell down few days back while on her morning walk, our local grocer... got his car to rush her home as he knows where I live."

Obviously this tale is complete fiction. The English is awkward, as if the essay was written by someone for whom English is a second language. It's probable the essay was written by Russian troll farm employee with the goal of sowing doubt about modern life and technology, that together with everything else they are propagating, causes Americans a general feeling of unease and confusion.

Or maybe it was written by a troll who put it out there for whatever reason.

[engine]

I agree with MB about the piece. However, the sentiment is correct.

I don't think that enough people realise what it's doing to them, and for some, especially in the formative years, it's terrible.

It's interesting that this article has just been published, "The people deciding to ditch their smartphones" [bbc.co.uk...]

[ronin]

I misunderstood the headline as meaning:

The people deciding to ditch their phones

Then I read:

[...] over Christmas she told her family and friends that she was switching to an old Nokia phone that could only make and receive calls and text messages.

So the first case study (I recognise the second is different) hasn't ditched carrying a mobile phone around with her - only a smartphone.

I wonder if this is a misdiagnosis?

Since logging out of Facebook two years ago (and abandoning Twitter three years before that), it's true, I casually / mindlessly glance at my internet-enabled touchphone a lot less.

But when, entirely intentionally, I want to:

- check a spelling
- look up the meaning of a word
- find synonyms / antonyms
- look up an encyclopaedic entry
- get walking or driving directions
- measure how far I'm running
- listen to a podcast while walking into town
- set an alarm
- read an e-book
- write a shopping list / to-do list etc.
- listen to the radio
- check if I've translated something correctly into another language
- take a photo or a video
- find out where the nearest branch of a particular shop or restaurant or local facility is

and many more things, there it is.

These are useful functions. I don't do them because I'm bored or I need dopamine hit. I do them because I mean to.

It's genuinely helpful having a pocket-sized device which can do all that.

I wonder if the misdiagnosis is: she wants to get away from social media and to do so, she has ditched her smartphone?

[topr8]

>>I misunderstood the headline as meaning:

sadly the bbc is often guilty these days of clickbait, poorly written and poorly researched articles as well as just plain untruths... they are also especially guilty of using library photos to illustrate stories where the library photos don't really match the true story. (such as, i often find when they are talking about money/finance, they use a stock image of UK banknotes, very often the notes they show are actually now out of date! - just an example of very poor editing)

...

personally i think smart phones are really handy, however you have to discipline yourself for them not to take over your life.

i look around me and see a lot of young adults are already addicted to their devices, it willl be the single biggest social/mental health issue in the near future.

we know social media companies design their products to be addictive, so let's face it, when people talk about always being on their smartphone/device they really mean they are constantly on a specific social app or apps. so it isn't the smart phone that is the issue but a handful of specific apps and we all know which ones they are.

i don't think there are people who for instance compulsively spend the day looking on google maps (if there are, they are fringe cases), and this obviously applies to many other useful apps.

[aside]
to me it is similar to tv ... around 30 years ago i shared a flat with my brother and we decided to not have a tv, it took a while to get used to, but once free of it, life is so much better ... but it doesn't stop me going to the cinema or watching tv at a friend's house, infact now i do have a tv that isn't connected to broadcast tv, so i can use it for dvds or maybe youtube, however i don't sub to anything like cable or netflicks. and more importantly i don't just sit infroint of it endlessly. i actively choose something to watch and watch it, then turn it off.
[/aside]

[engine]

@topr8
Yes, I agree, the BBC has let standards drop, with poorly researched stories going online.

it willl be the single biggest social/mental health issue in the near future.

I totally agree. Physically, their neck is bent downwards, and the majority of daily interaction with them locked onto their devices often makes them socially inept. I have seen it in daily life, and it's happening now.

[martinibuster]

I think it's overstated.

It was not unusual for kids of our generation to watch television five or more hours per day. I suspect some of you have 12 hours or more of screen time from the computer and the telly and the games and is it making morons of you?

And those who are in their 30's grew up on endless hours of Nintendo games and horrid television shows like Barney the Dinosaur and they came out okay.

Teens today watch TV while playing games at the same time and they communicate socially via phones. Nobody picks up the phone to talk to another kid because that's weird today.

Our parents likely thought WE as teens were lost causes because we spent hours on the phone talking to girlfriends and boyfriends. I'm sure our parents were like, "In my day we didn't talk on the phone! We talked face to face!"

I don't know why the older generation ALWAYS has to conclude that the younger generation is doing life wrong. Generation after generation it's always mostly worked out with some mistakes along the way.

So why assume your generation is right this time when they say the young generation is doing life wrong?

I think it's rather pretentious and shortsighted.

Circling back to that essay, we can all agree it's a load of ka-rap with inconsistencies and lies.

[NickMNS]

I don't know why the older generation ALWAYS has to conclude that the younger generation is doing life wrong.

Exactly!

[engine]

I guess I had a sheltered life!

The mobile and social media situation combined are totally different from kids watching tv.

I don't know why the older generation ALWAYS has to conclude that the younger generation is doing life wrong.

I'm observing what I see, and I see many really awkward kids that struggle to interact with other humans. And i'm not only observing teens and younger, i'm seeing it in 20-year-olds that have difficulty relating to the world around them. It's not just the teen with hormones raging. It's not the same for all youngsters. I also know some that do not have the phone attached to their hand.

This topic in general is important for all of us to learn to go offline, and to relate to better the world around us.

[Kendo]

Not only do most of us make our living online, but we also use it for entertainment.

For me, I don't have to work and am in fact retired. But internet projects keep my mind alive with continual challenges. However I do break that up by maintaining a few acres of landscape and a couple of hours lapping a full size snooker table each day.

But it is difficult to fill a whole day and even with internet projects, I find myself continually waiting for a partner to complete his task so that I can resume. Too much snooker can result in back ache and with the current weather... either heat wave or downpour, being outside is not comfortable.

I think that most people my age are lounge lizards, not very fit and on the verge of brain dead. So the internet has not been so bad.

[ronin]

Physically, their neck is bent downwards

Just as handheld touchscreen devices (smartphones, tablets, phablets) were the landmark device form factor of the 2010s, the landmark form factor of the 2020s will be visors / headsets.

So anyone who has been trained to bend their neck downwards will be re-trained to look straight ahead again.

[Sgt_Kickaxe]

- I grew up without a smart phone
- I played outside with friends until the street lights came on
- I was always aware of what my friends were doing

- Now kids need smart phones to prove status
- Playing outside is now considered unsafe without supervision
- Kids don't know what friends are REALLY doing, only what their updates say

Being perpetually entertained, satisfied and unoffended is over-rated because there is no wonder or adventure in it. Having lived in both times I miss the old.

[ronin]

Now kids need smart phones

1) Well they don't, arguably

2) We should note that anyone younger than 13 or 14 (at the very earliest) has no means of getting their hands on a smartphone without assistance

[edited by: ronin at 1:09 pm (utc) on Feb 8, 2022]

[not2easy]

Being perpetually entertained, satisfied and unoffended is over-rated because there is no wonder or adventure in it.

It creates an environment of restricted or selective learning when people surround themselves with only those who are agreeable and reinforce what they already believe (or want to believe). It creates a playground for those intent on manipulative or self serving practices (or marketing).

[tangor]

Are we online too much? Probably.

Does it matter? Depends.

Are kids growing up social crippled? You bet!

Is anything going to change any time soon? Nah.

----

It is what it is.

[NickMNS]

- I grew up without a smart phone
- I played outside with friends until the street lights came on
- I was always aware of what my friends were doing

- Now kids need smart phones to prove status
- Playing outside is now considered unsafe without supervision
- Kids don't know what friends are REALLY doing, only what their updates say

I'm going to guess that you don't have kids.

- My kids play outside with friends until the street lights come on (more so in summer, it get's really cold in winter in my parts)
- My kids are always aware of what my friends were doing

- Kids don't need smart phones to prove status, although status plays a part, status lies more in the type of phone. But kids need smart phones because of the network effects. It would have been like not having a land line and TV when you were young. Without a smartphone kids cannot participate in the network of friends, they can't communicate over the same channels and can't consume the same content.

Some parents do feel that they need to supervise the kids at every minute of the day including while playing outside but that speaks more to the generation of the parents than the kids.
My kids REALLY know what friends are doing and don't care what updates say, Facebook is for losers.

A few caveats:
I have two boys and I suspect that the way girls interact with their networks are different, mainly that social media plays a bigger role, specifically TikTok, but I can't speak that.

I'm fortunate that my kids are socially aware and interact with other kids easily, but I can imagine that for kids that have trouble with social interaction that it can become nearly impossible to interact in today's networks and thus they can be isolated much quicker and to a much greater extent. Obviously the physical separation caused by the pandemic makes this much worse.

[ronin]

But kids need smart phones because of the network effects. It would have been like not having a land line and TV when you were young. Without a smartphone kids cannot participate in the network of friends, they can't communicate over the same channels and can't consume the same content.

I agree this is absolutely key.

[Dimitri]

I've been there (old enough), when the first personal computers appeared, so I followed all the evolution of the digital world , and (modestly) took part and contributed to it. That was fun, exciting a big bang of possibilities.

I do not regret it, but today, I am stepping out, as much as I can without regret either.

I am like the Dad, in the first post. Few months ago, I asked my bank to transfer my account, from their online management, to their local office in my town, and I enjoy meeting people there, this can be other clients, (of all age) , as well as the bank employees, this is lot better than talking to someone through a chat, or emails. And this will be better when the pandemic will be over :-)

This is indirectly related, but , I've been a customer of Amazon since , ... I can't remember when; and in the past, I had the opportunity to contact their customer service, by email. This was always great experience, even if I was not seeing or hearing them, but this was personal and friendly.... now, 2 months ago, I had to contact them again , and it shocked me to fall on a chatbot ... then when I finally get in touch with a human (in India), he sounded like a chatbot, with ready to use sentences, then after an hour of exchanges, they finally transferred me to a guy, in Texas, and I get finally this human touch , I used to have.

[ronin]

I think customer service is a specific situation where you definitely want to interact with an intelligent, knowledgable, understanding human being with decision-making ability. (Though, even when you're actually talking to a human being, how often are they all of these?)

But, personally, the bank thing... I guess I'll never get it.

Do I want to interact with people I don't know in a pub garden or at an open-air concert? Yes sure, why not? We're all enjoying free time / music / drinks / atmosphere / conversation etc.

But do I want to meet other bank customers? Or bank employees? No. If I never set foot inside a physical bank ever again, I don't think I would be particularly bothered. It takes time (twenty minutes queueing maybe and that's before I count the hour walking into town and back) and these people in the bank (the vast majority of them) are either at work or anxious to process some finances at the bank and then get back to work.

I'd rather get routine / functional / necessary stuff done more quickly on my phone and then have more time for real socialising.

I remember twenty-odd years ago when I worked in a newsroom in London losing entire (precious!) lunch hours queuing in the bank. It was miserable. Online banking is a gift.

[Dimitri]

My wording was awkward , my apologies. It was late, my mind was not clear and I mixed several things. Of-course, for basic operations, I still prefer to do it online, in fact, I was just thinking of the human relation, when there are problems to deal with, or explanations, or things like that. (been traumatized recently with online banking experience, with an issue I faced, which was not even my fault, and for days had a guys repeating in loop the same thing again and again, until I was able to go talk to a real person , at the bank office, who fixed it in less than 5 minutes).

[blend27]

^ what they said!

.. and webmasterworld still accepts e-checks, right?

but, but if you read this - notice how many times word LIKE was used and how it did not deputize the sentence every time, not really much.

"But" was used alot, never "Spring" was <- and it is almost Here!

__I__ but not we?

Feb 14, 2022 :).