Advice on buying a 2-in-1 Laptop / Tablet

[csdude55]

With Windows 7 going EOL, I guess maybe it's time to look at new computers. I bought the one I have now in 2008... it's a Toshiba Satellite L505D laptop, with 2.3GHz Dual Core AMD Turion processor and 4G of RAM. I mostly use it for internet, email, coding, and light graphic editing (using Paint Shop Pro 4.1, which IMO is much better than any of the newer ones!).

I have it connected to a monitor and wireless keyboard / mouse combo, so I basically use it like a desktop until I travel, then I can just unplug everything and go.

Every once in awhile I get a BSOD. I forget the error, but it implies a hardware failure somewhere... probably the Samsung SSD that I installed last year, because I never had any errors before installing it.

My office manager has an HP G60 laptop, with a 2.2GHz Dual Core CPU and 3G of RAM. She mainly uses it for Microsoft Office (including Outlook, she won't even consider OpenOffice and Thunderbird because she's name-brand only) and Quickbooks, but also internet and email. Hers doesn't have any hardware problems, she's just jealous that I'll be getting a new one :-/

Both run Windows 7, so I'm looking to upgrade both. I would also like to set up 2 monitors on each computer to extend the screen size (not 2 copies of the same screen, but so I can drag things from one screen to the next seamlessly; allowing me to have twice as many windows visible).

The most logical move seems to be getting a 2-in-1. This should give me the versatility of using it like I do now (emulating a desktop), and taking it with me more easily to use as a tablet or laptop. But the ones I'm finding are like $1,000 /each! And that's for virtually the same CPU (I'm finding 2.5G where mine is 2.4G) and 8G of RAM. Which seems like a lot of money for what's more or less a cosmetic upgrade. I was thinking they would be more like $500 /each, and then I would have enough money to buy 4 monitors and whatever adapters are necessary to set that up.

Can you guys give me any tips on what to look for? I haven't been computer shopping in 10+ years, so while I know enough to be dangerous, I don't know what makes one better than the other.

[csdude55]

Adding to it, what's the deal with Microsoft Office? I find it on some sites for $40, but Microsoft has what appears to be the same thing for $250:

[softwareproworld.com...]

[products.office.com...]

Is the first one the same thing, just that much cheaper? I get that buying direct is usually higher, but 600% higher? Something seems off...

[not2easy]

Some Office offers may seem to be much cheaper because they are monthly subscriptions or older versions or missing components like Outlook? Office as a product you buy and own is one thing and the "Adobe plan" Office 365 is another with more options.

More about that here: [webmasterworld.com...]

[csdude55]

That's what throws me off, @not2easy... the first link for $40 says:

Brand New Microsoft Office 2019 for Windows 10 containing Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook and more. Full version, lifetime license.

So I dunno.

For the devices, I think I have it narrowed down to either an HP Envy x360 2-in-1 or a Dell Inspiron 7000 2-in-1.

The HP has 12G of RAM, an Intel 10th Gen Core i7 (1.8GHz, i7-10510U), and a 512G SSD + 32G Optane (whatever that is). The Dell has 8G of RAM, an Intel 10th Gen Core i5 (1.6GHz, i5-10210U), and a 512G SSD + 32G Optane.

[bestbuy.com...]

I'm concerned that the CPU speed of either is lower than my current laptop's speed, but maybe the Intel 10th Gen Core is inherently faster than my older AMD Turion?

The HP is only $50 more than the Dell, so on paper having a faster processor and 50% more RAM is a no-brainer. BUT, HP used to have a bad reputation for being poorly built, heat problems, hinges failing, etc... which isn't a shock, isn't it basically a Walmart brand?

[not2easy]

In the early years of this century, HP were the only machines available locally so I have had a few. Now that I can order easily online, I do not order anything HP. I have maybe 6 machines in the garage I use for holding up axles during wheel work. I could recommend them for that purpose.

I have no suggestions for you because in your scenario I would use a Mac Mini and an iPad, maybe a stack of external drives. I would not expect much productivity from a machine of any brand or OS with only 8GB of RAM. Sorry, I'm not much help for the laptop you seek.

[csdude55]

The laptop I have now is only 4G of RAM and it is OK for my purposes, although I do occasionally have delays when I have a lot of tabs open in Chrome. And I IMAP to Gmail with a ton of emails, so occasionally Thunderbird runs slow. I'm not sure if that's the RAM, CPU, or software, though.

But Windows 10 DOES seem like more of a resource hog, and I've read a few reviews that consider 8G to be the minimum:

[zdnet.com...]

I suspect that Win10 on an 8G machine is going to be slower than my current setup with Win7 on 4G of RAM >:-( But with the economy the way it is, and ad revenue dropping down and down and down and down, it's tough to justify spending a ton of money on what's more or less going to be a cosmetic upgrade.

Grrr.

[csdude55]

Am I correct that I could upgrade the Dell to 16G of RAM for $32?

[crucial.com...]

Then the only difference would be the Intel i7 vs. i5.

[engine]

It's interesting that we might be having different experiences.
Talking laptops, every HP laptop i've had has lasted and lasted, and they were used quite a lot.
The shortest lived laptop i ever had was a lenovo. It packed up just over a year of use.
As for desktops, i'm in the same view, with some over ten years old still working, albeit no longer used in the same way.

The biggest change you'll see is with the SSD: It's so much faster than a 2.5-inch hard drive.

I'd go for the HP based upon my own experience, but you may know otherwise.

BTW, i've tried using the laptops with a touchscreen and keyboard and, for me, were a waste of time in use and heavier to lug about.

[csdude55]

I've actually only owned a handful of computers, because I take care of my stuff and rarely need to upgrade. My first PC was a CTX in 1996... 8M of RAM, a 266MHz CPU, a 1G HDD, and a blazing 56k modem! That monster was over $1,000, too! After that I built 3 PCs for myself, but then I decided to get a laptop in 2008 and couldn't really build them anymore.

So most of what I "know" about HP is from the reviews I've read, not personal experience. My office manager has an HP and it's just fine, but she rarely uses it for anything other than as a desktop. I take my Toshiba with me more often, but still, we're probably talking less than 100 hours out of a year. Other than that, it's just a funky looking desktop.

My thought for a 2-in-1 was so that I could take it to client meetings, ad sales, and when I go on vacation I could use it as a book reader as well as to reply to emails and moderate. But mostly it would just be plugged in like a desktop.

[csdude55]

Well, I think that I've landed on a Dell Inspiron 7000 2-in-1. Which, of course, is like $1,200 :-O

I've narrowed it down to either this 17":

[dell.com...]

Or this 15" Black Edition:

[dell.com...]

The Black Edition is a little lighter, has a slimmer bezel so more of a viewing port, and apparently the hinge for the pen that I'll probably never use is a big deal. But it's also 2" smaller, so is that good or bad? I dunno.

But both have 16G of RAM, which should be sufficient long term. If 8G is considered the minimum for Win10 then that gives me some room to grow over time with more software. Both have the same 10th Generation i7 CPU, which is supposedly faster and has more threads (whatever that means) than older versions. It's my understanding that there's virtually no difference between the 8th Gen and 10th Gen, but the Inspiron they have with the 8th Gen CPU only comes with an HDD. Oh, and it's out of stock, so...

512G of SSD is overkill, but it's better to have too much than not enough. I currently only use about 75G (most of which belongs to Windows, anyway), and do most of my data storage online so that doesn't make a huge difference to me. But if Google Drive, pCloud, Dropbox, and Mega all either disappear or start charging then at least I'll have plenty of local storage available.

OR!

I can go back to the 15" HP Envy and save like $400 /each:

[store.hp.com...]

The specs seem pretty much the same to me, so the only difference is cosmetic and possibly the quality of materials. I wish I could actually pick them up and compare them in person, those little details that you can only see and feel would make all the difference.

[vordmeister]

For office - libra office is a good alternative, but check out Amazon for somwehat lower than official prices for office. They seem to work - check the feedback.

I upgraded recently and was surprised how little the specs had advanced in 10 years. Size and weight have halved which is brilliant for travel. Processors are the same size but you get a few more of them. Hard drives are the same size but the SSD makes an unbelievable difference in speed so go for something with a tiny SSD and buy a USB drive to keep stuff on in preference to a large old fashioned drive for the same price.

I maxed out and bought a high end XPS. Don't forget to consider what screen types are available as they affect battery life. You can get 9 hours from the matt non-reflective screen. I got the standard reflective screen by accident, and while it is much less reflective than earlier versions it reduces battery life. Super dooper touch stuff sucks it away.

[not2easy]

Or wait until tomorrow for the Black Friday specials?

[robzilla]

I'm concerned that the CPU speed of either is lower than my current laptop's speed, but maybe the Intel 10th Gen Core is inherently faster than my older AMD Turion?

Absolutely [cpu.userbenchmark.com]. Also, the Intel CPU has hyperthreading (4 threads).

Except for PCs (which I like to build myself) and smartphones, I tend to buy all hardware either refurbished or second-hand these days. You can get ±1-2 year old products that look as-new for a fraction of the original retail price. And so long as you get a decent CPU (I'd try to get quad core myself) and an SSD, you can hardly tell the difference in terms of performance.

For basic usage, 4GB is perfectly fine to run Windows 10, so 8GB really is plenty. And most Windows 7 computers I've upgraded to Windows 10 have pretty much stayed the same, performance-wise. It's all about that SSD.

[csdude55]

Well, I jumped in feet first and got two of these:

[dell.com...]

What you guys said about weight really got me thinking, and this one is about 1 1/2 lbs lighter than the HP with similar hardware.

I hope these will last for a good 10 years, so I wanted to get the fastest possible. And the smaller bezel of the Black Edition was a major selling point. That, along with the lighter weight, was worth the $300 over the price of the HP.

I also sprung for 4 years of Accidental Damage coverage. I'll probably never use that, but since I hope to take this to ad sales meetings and while traveling then it's a smart thing to have. It was around $100... shoot, once you're in for $1150 what's another $100? LOL

It's supposed to come in around Dec 17, so I'll let you all know what I think when it gets here!

[engine]

Exciting, eh, and I bet you can't wait for its arrival.

Good idea on the accidental damage cover, especially if you do a lot of travelling.

[csdude55]

You guys learn from my loss... be wary when ordering from Dell.

I ordered this laptop on Cyber Monday, it was "on sale" for $1299 and the sales rep discounted it to $1251.00. Then I added 4 years of Premium Support and 4 years of Accidental Damage Coverage for $138.27. Bringing the total for one laptop to $1,389.27.

Today, when I posted the link here, I saw that it's on sale for $1126.99! That's a difference of $124.01! So I went to a chat session with my sales rep and requested a refund of the difference.

Here's where it gets sneaky:

Now, the 4 years of support + accidental damage is $252.84! Making it $1,379.83... $9.44 cheaper, not $124.01.

Had I ordered without any additional coverage then I would have saved $124 on the laptop ($248 for both). That makes the coverage way more expensive than I would have paid had I known. $140 is reasonable, $250 is not.

[engine]

Ouch!
This tends to prove that the black Friday and cyber monday sales are not really for consumers, which I've believed for a long while.

The most important thing is that you get the machine you need/want.

[csdude55]

I've noticed this everywhere... they slowly raise prices for a few weeks before Thanksgiving, then have a huge "sale" that is really just going back to their regular price >:-(

But yeah, in the grand scheme of things... my current laptop is 11 years old, so if this tablet does well for 11+ years, too, then it's a small price to pay.