WW reaches a new low

Google, Google and more Google

[graeme_p]

Every single thread in "hot threads this week" at the moment is about Google:

Google Updates and SERP Changes - September 2016
"ZOMBIE TRAFFIC" Separating fact from fiction & emotion
Google: Spammy Widget Links Violate its Webmaster Guidelines
September 2016 AdSense Earnings and Observations
Google Updates and SERP Changes - August 2016
Why the Penguin update won't help many webmasters
Google Tests "Shop the Look" For Mobile
Massive jumps in GSC legacy crawl errors - who sees this?
Google is Working on a Penguin Announcement
Strange case, any ideas?

I notice @tangor just posted he will be spending less time on WW. So am I, and I bet a lot of others are too.

Perhaps it is time to rename it Google World?

[buckworks]

The solution for this is in your hands: make an interesting post about something different!

[iamlost]

I've tried to post 'other' than Google comments, start 'other' than Google webdev cutting edge topics BUT they are not 'popular' because many/most WebmasterWorld members as with most webdev fora members are Google addicts who disbelieve traffic and conversions and revenue come from anywhere but bigG.

I stopped participating years ago because of this fixation/focus. I came back out of lurk mode this past while because a few members were making a big effort. Frankly, except for whatever the current Google hot news story is this forum as with most others is so far behind the webdev curve it's depressing. Cutting edge development conversations are rare, bleeding edge non-existent.

While I know many members have years of experience and are extremely knowledgeable the forum conversations are mostly Google complaints, Google gossip, or what was 'new' two to five to ten years ago.

I have promised myself to keep involved through the end of the year, however if it remains as is I will likely revert to lurking. Relevance to my web business life is seriously missing.

Non-cookie cutter webdev has changed drastically since 2007 and that change is accelerating while WebmasterWorld is stuck in neutral.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Have a look at the forum platform. This is 2016 and the software looked out of it ten years ago. That may be part of the problem.

This insistence on sticking with something that just about passed muster 20 years ago is not good enough. Forums like this one depend on new blood trickling through constantly. Think about what this place looks like to any of the new breed who chance upon us. It's like trying to attract Pokemon Go players with Space Invaders. Sorry but that's the way I see it.

[piatkow]

many/most WebmasterWorld members as with most webdev fora members are Google addicts who disbelieve traffic and conversions and revenue come from anywhere but bigG.

A lot don't even seem to appreciate that the traffic even needs to convert.

Have a look at the forum platform.

It doesn't look sexy but it does its job perfectly.

[martinibuster]

Where were you when I made this post? :)

Thinking of Going Font-less
Website with Zero Fonts... Good idea? [webmasterworld.com]

[engine]

Every single thread in "hot threads this week" at the moment is about Google:

Well, that just might be a coincidence: It changes all the time, and is based upon what people find of interest. The recent Google SERPs changes will attract people to those.

Try the home page for a balanced view of all the news, which may also be Google.

Non-cookie cutter webdev has changed drastically since 2007 and that change is accelerating

Let's have some posts from you on the topic. :)

[Marshall]

Have to agree with OP. I posted a question quite some time ago needing help with an issue and no one responded. When I joined WebmasterWorld, getting help for non-Google was never a problem. Now it does seem if it is not a G related issue, it does not get the attention. Yes, priorities change, but WebmasterWorld is not what it use to be, hence my fewer posts.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

"It doesn't look sexy but it does its job perfectly."

So did DOS. ;)

[jmccormac]

The site has become extremely pro-Google to such an extent that threads where anyone questioning the great god Google is spammed to oblivion with pro-Google posts. I've built search engines, developed algorithms, built one of the biggest sites on the web but that doesn't seem to matter when I point out that Google is doing something badly or even wrong. I'm an unbeliever in the godhood of Google. The site design doesn't bother me. It is usable and functional. However the overwhelming Google infestation of the site means that I don't post or read it as much as I used to and I'm a paid subscriber.

Regards...jmcc

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

"The site design doesn't bother me. It is usable and functional."
I understand what you are saying but my point is that people like you and I, who have been here for years, are not the issue. The forum needs to consistently attract new blood. It most certainly won't do that with this design. Most people who are not prepared to look beyond the design (most people?) will be reaching for the back button as soon as the page renders.

[jmccormac]

True. Some of the newer forum software looks visually impressive and has a lot of features. One of the most useful is tracking replies and mentions. The tracked conversation list in the right hand side of the screen is good but with some of the newer software, it is possible to include a person's username in a post and this notifies them through an alert. That kind of thing really does enhance interaction on a thread. But the site needs a diversity of expertise and posters. These posters generally drive conversations and start threads. They matter more than the site design. Though a more recent site design may encourage new users.

Regards...jmcc

[keyplyr]

Possibly some type of referral incentive could be considered, where current members bring in new members and earn an incentive if that new member contributes for a certain amount of time or posts.

As for all the pro/con talk about Google this or that, I don't pay much attention and stopped getting involved with it some time ago, but then Google only accounts for about 20% of my traffic.

However I do see the (perceived?) value of the lengthy Google update threads, especially to newer webmasters trying to figure it all out.

[graeme_p]

I do not think the look or features are the main problem: it is the content. I realise the moderators try to highlight other discussions on the front page, but they rarely gain much momentum whether they are on the front page or not.

@martinibuster, yes that is the sort of discussion we should be having. Unfortunately I tend to miss them: I have added email notifications for Webmaster General to my forum preferences as there seem to be a lot of good conversations there.

I know there are a lot of interesting people here, which is why I care about it, rather than just quietly going off to another forum.

@engine, it is particularly bad this week, but every time I look at the hot threads they are mostly about Google.

The biggest problem with the Google threads is that they contain very little that is useful, in terms of actually improving what I do. I think we need more of "the serenity to accept the things I cannot change" and spend time on useful discussions.

@jmccormac, I disagree, I see a lot of hatred and paranoia directed at Google. Either way, I think we can agree the discussions are not terribly useful.

[engine]

@jmccormac, I disagree, I see a lot of hatred and paranoia directed at Google. Either way, I think we can agree the discussions are not terribly useful.

Yes, and unfortunately, more often than not, that venting drives people away. The more interesting comments get drowned in the negativity and venting.

[tangor]

Railing at the Machine has become Wailing at the Machine.

There are other methods than seeking to make right something that has changed and will NEVER again pay out like it once did, or was rumored to do. Discussion on what to do NEXT instead of beating a dead horse would hold my interest, otherwise, I can't stand pity parties.

(rolling over, going back to sleep)

[lawman]

Tangor stirs, says what must me said, goes back to sleep.

[macrost]

How has my account been active all this time? Wow. I'm actually surprised I remembered the password.

[lawman]

Thanks for checking in macrost.

[londrum]

Forums are tough these days.
i think the ones that still work well are the ones that write an in-depth article about something, and then invite comments underneath.
They have experts writing about a subject, and then us ugly lot come in underneath and agree or disagree and argue and add our tuppence worth. But its the experts who start the ball rolling, by writing informative essays with images and links and facts and figures and examples. All the decent info is provided at the top. But if WW has a topic about Panda, for example, then we have to delve through the whole lot to squeeze out a few drops of useful information.

Maybe that's how WW can change? Look at that barry schwartz guy... he seems to write a few paragraphs about something he's read on WW or another SEO site and then always seems to get a load of comments underneath. Instead of waiting for the users to start topics, you have someone whos got the facts and figures to begin it instead, with a big essay. And the users comes in afterwards to support or demolish it. Youd probably only have to do a few a day

But... heres the thing that i dont think WW is prepared to change. The one thing that all of those popular sites have in common is that their comments sections are very loose with the rules. People have free reign to say whatever they want. They don't have school teachers watching over them with a cane in one hand and a rule book in the other. Yeah it can be brutal, but its also entertaining and informative, and that's what keeps the people coming back.

[johnhh]

If I may comment...
Yes, there is a lot of long Google threads, but for a reason. Google is dominant in most countries, and any changes effect people where it hurts, their income. However day by day traffic and zombie reporting are meaningless, in fact some posters would be better spending their time on their websites rather than mouthing off. Some traffic figures mentioned are under a thousand uniques a day, that's not a business.

I think the mods should be much harder and spin off comments into new threads faster, like Tedster used to do.

I do see some mods adding topics to comment on, which is great.

I'm afraid I ignore most other SEO sites for the simple reason that if SEO 'experts' were any good they would have retired by now, as I intended to do until a fateful day in April 2011 when @reseller posted an update alert that hit us very hard. Never hear from him now.

I do notice some new blood, but some of the things they mention is so, well, 2010.

I lost a lot of income since 2011, but after 5 years of work it is coming back,. Not due to comments and 'advice' here but by reading trends rather than fads, adding 'niche' areas to our main website that answer related questions, and not 'dancing' to the Google tune.

[graeme_p]

Well, things have improved this week. We are down to "only" 6 out of ten hot threads being purely about Google, and another two only partly about Google.

I am counting this as one of the two non Google threads - it mentions Google, but is not about Google.

@johnhh - yes, exactly right. I lost almost all the income from what was my major source of income a few years ago due to algo changes, but I think it is more useful to more on rather than keep complaining and worrying.

Some traffic figures mentioned are under a thousand uniques a day, that's not a business.

That depends on the business. If you sell expensive products or services and your traffic converts well you can do quite well from low visitor numbers. Not so good if your business model is selling CPM ads, of course!

[graeme_p]

Back again to 10 out of 10 hot threads being Google related.

[engine]

No surprise after the Penguin changes going on for the last few months.

[keyplyr]

Isn't this another thread about Google?

[pageoneresults]

Google, Google, Google!

Kids these days...

pageoneresults
Senior Member from US

Byte me!

[johnhh]

I have sharp teeth .. and I grunt.. does that count @pageoneresults

Back to my bottle of Scotch.. I did an allnighter last night.

[graeme_p]

@keyplyr, that depends on your definitions. The sort of discussion that keeps philosophers happy.

I would say it is a thread about Webmaster World that happens to mention Google.

[graeme_p]

For those who want a more constructive approach, I am trying [webmasterworld.com ]

[bwnbwn]

I just don't understand the issue. Google controls most of the search so du most of the users will be interested in this. If you have an issue with this go to another forum I am willing to bet they are as well consumed with google. What pays the bills is what people what to read about.