More Hacker Arrests

[engine]

More Hacker Arrests [pcworld.com]

As hacking groups like Anonymous and LulzSec have earned a higher profile in the past few months, they've also earned themselves (or perhaps their patsies) an increasing number of trips to jail.

Most recently, police in the U.K. have charged the 18-year-old man they allege is LulzSec spokesperson "Topiary" with five offenses related to DDOS attacks on the Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA), which is similar to the FBI in the United States.

[J_RaD]

cause these clever people thought DDoSing from their parents house was foolproof.

maybe they just think an IP is a set of confusing numbers.

[justrobin]

I am not sure if this is a good news or a bad news... What do you think?

[wheel]

It's the best news I've heard all week. Send 'em to federal pen for a year or two.

These folks think what they're doing is about the class of tagging when it's actually closer to armed robbery. A few years in prison will clarify the difference for them.

[J_RaD]

These kids need to understand they aren't "anonymous" you can be traced and busted.

[greenleaves]

So you think a bunch of old guys can figure out who actually did it? lolz

The poor sobs they arrested are likely not the perps. And even if they are, how can they get a fair trial when none at the court will know what the #*$! anything that is being talked about means?

As far as the judge, attorneys and jury are concerned, the internets are little blue es 'computers' (not desktops), and they send an 'internet' (aka email) to people they know.

[lucy24]

Just a few minutes ago-- really-- I heard a TV commercial touting a company's "online website". As opposed to, I guess, having to go into the office and look at their local html files.

A year or two back, a local business successfully sued their web designer for, among other things, letting the domain registration (which belonged to the business, not the designer) expire. They claimed they never got the reminder notices.* Imagine someone arguing in court that they weren't liable for failing to renew their insurance, because they never got a written reminder asking for their renewal. But just mention the internet, and the judge's brain cells keel over in a dead faint.


* I believe I get about twelve of them over a two-month period, sent to two different e-mail addresses.

[tangor]

Alleged... wait for the conviction, else is just a bit of fluff reporting re: "Our Dollars/Pounds at Work.

[justrobin]

What is the maximum penalty for hackers nowadays?

If the hacker is a minor, what treatment should he get?

[piatkow]

The OP states that the young man in question was an adult.

Send 'em to federal pen for a year or two.

You have been watching too much Torchwood. Rendition isn't automatic for offences committed in the UK.

[wheel]

I was providing an opinion. Folks need to treat this seriously, yet right here in this thread yourself and greenleaves are basically blowing off as insignificant people that deliberately damage other peoples businesses, like it's no big deal.

I've spent thousands recovering from hackers, others have spent much more. Yet your attitude is that I've been watching too much TV. Is your TV paying me back for those damages?

[graeme_p]

@wheel, I think the point people with doubts about this have is that there is doubt about whether the police have got the right people, and whether the jury will understand the evidence well enough to give them a fair trial.

[J_RaD]

So you think a bunch of old guys can figure out who actually did it? lolz

define "old" IMO this younger generation 18 - 25 is the least computer savvy of them all when it comes to REAL knowledge. 99% of the people that followed along and participated in that moronic plan were just net nerds that could download a program and follow someone elses instructions.

The poor sobs they arrested are likely not the perps.

I'm sure they probably are, ring leaders? do boys? yes (aka army of idiots).

And even if they are, how can they get a fair trial when none at the court will know what the #*$! anything that is being talked about means?

1 thing i agree with you on.

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don't even get me started on the other gang that thought it was super cool to go steal innocent peoples personal data and dump it wholesale on the web for anyone to abuse! grr I was more then happy to see the white hat hackers going on the offense against such foolishness. All for the "lulz" right?

[greenleaves]

I was providing an opinion. Folks need to treat this seriously, yet right here in this thread yourself and greenleaves are basically blowing off as insignificant people that deliberately damage other peoples businesses, like it's no big deal.

I've spent thousands recovering from hackers, others have spent much more. Yet your attitude is that I've been watching too much TV. Is your TV paying me back for those damages?

Can you please tell me where I said hacking is insignificant? I too have been hacked, Ddossed, etc. Yes it is a PITA. No doubt. But attacking a straw man argument you created because your angry doesn't help anyone.


My point was totally unrelated to how serious hacking is.

My point was simple, no one in the judiciary system is ready to deal with the prosecution of hackers.

I could provide you with a scenario where the original hacker will NEVER be caught (as in 100% sure), and the most law enforcement can do is nab the poor person who owns the net connection the hacker used to commit his deeds (not saying this is the case here, but I can give you a case where this would be true)

If you think current powers to be are ready to play god with peoples lives on a subject they clearly don't understand, look up the 'internet tube' speech, from the person who is in charge of online commerce. And since the US declared .com their jurisdiction, this was the person in charge of the ENTIRE world eCommerce scene. He was deemed the person most competent to deal with this. Now imagine his runner upers :|

[wheel]

THey arrested these people in the UK, not China. There's every ability for the authorities to determine with pretty darn good certainty that they were doing this.

As for the courts not being able to determine what's going on, the courts handle complex and technical cases all the time. Judges aren't idiots, they've got the ability to figure out that there's a reasonable certainty that these folks did the crime, and figure out the damage the did. Judges can do that without knowing how to write code, just like they can review patent cases without understanding the patent.

In terms of straw man arguments, saying hackers can't get a fair trial is the real straw man argument.

[greenleaves]

THey arrested these people in the UK, not China. There's every ability for the authorities to determine with pretty darn good certainty that they were doing this.

If I was to buy a laptop using cash and give the name of some poor sob who I found has an open wifi connection.

I then frequently visit the nearby area of the poor sobs house to hook onto their wifi. Then I start to do things from this connection, using the poor sobs info.

Who do you think they will arrest? Now imagine a more complex case. Are you still so certain they got the right guys? And remember, I'm giving a very simplistic example, if you REALLY don't want to be found, and are smart enough, you won't. Not until they can trace every individual all the time with 100% accuracy (more cameras, better face recognition software and better profiling of civilians)

As for the courts not being able to determine what's going on, the courts handle complex and technical cases all the time. Judges aren't idiots, they've got the ability to figure out that there's a reasonable certainty that these folks did the crime, and figure out the damage the did. Judges can do that without knowing how to write code, just like they can review patent cases without understanding the patent.

Wow, I expected you to have little to nothing to argue with. But I was certainly not expecting you would give me an example that would prove my point. Do a little research on patent abuse. You might learn a thing or two... if you are open to learning... there are people who have blind faith in their handlers and no amount of reason, logic and evidence will make them see otherwise.

In terms of straw man arguments, saying hackers can't get a fair trial is the real straw man argument.

You just keep attacking points I don't make. Not that I would expect anything else from someone debating such a weak point as yours.

I never said 'hackers can't get a fair trail'

I said even IF they got the right guys. I have serious doubts about that. I hope the jury does too. It will be a sad day in the world when everyone like you presumes that: arrest = guilt.

[graeme_p]

@wheel, you have a lot more confidence in British police and courts than I do. People have been wrongly convicted of everything up to high profile terrorist bombings, the police one raided a "hacker" because he use Lynx and manually edited a url (i.e. trimmed it to go up a directory) which was considered suspicious.