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4:36 am on Apr 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

System: The following 4 messages were cut out of thread at: http://www.webmasterworld.com/webmasterworld/4298274.htm [webmasterworld.com] by brett_tabke - 9:58 am on Apr 20, 2011 (cst -6)

My Dad signed with the Redlegs back in '57. They're the Reds now. He was fresh out of Washburn U here in Topeka and in his senior year threw 2 no hitters and 4 shut outs for them. Went a full 9 every time out. Not many save opportunities when my old man took the mound. He brought the heat and he was a southpaw. Good combination at a small University back then. I've seen old movie clips that my Mom took at some of his games. He had em totally confused. Good breaking ball, a friggin curve ball from hell that had so much movement on it they just stood there and watched it go by. Nobody wanted to catch for him. His stuff moved that much.

He had 5 pitches and could put every one of them over the plate. These days that's mandatory. Back then it was exceptional though.

He tore up his Achilles, season ending injury. The Redlegs brought somebody up from the farm and Dad decided put his degree to work instead. To be quite honest I think he threw himself out in College. I don't know how much he had left for the pros.

I pitched myself. Little league. Babe Ruth Leagues and in high school. I didn't have his arm though, or his confidence.

Now, to get back on track. I hope you don't leave over this. I, for one, would like to talk to you more.

But you know, you gotta do what you gotta do....


2:26 pm on Apr 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Back in the '80s I threw low to mid '90s but was too old for anyone to sign. I tried out for the Pirates and Reds but they never were serious but I wasn't trying out to be a pitcher, maybe my mistake.

When the local league first started in '90, I threw upper 80's to low '90s and had a good breaking ball and excellent slider. No changeup, though. Then in fall of '90 had 1st deg. sep of AC join on throwing shoulder and wasn't able to throw for 6 mos. When I came back, I was only throwing mid '70s. So I had to learn to be a real pitcher and out think the hitters. In the yrs since, I had gotten some velocity back, in low '80s now at 51 yrs old and have a great changeup that moves away from lefties and in on righties.

Since my slider doesn't put torque on the elbow, I showed it to an instructor and he has begun teaching it to HS pitchers around the country.

My changeup I learned from an outfielder, it is more like a "slip-pitch" with the two middle fingers off the ball and the ball placed back in the first joint. I never could do the circle-change until I started throwing this and now it has evolved into a full circle change that moves, sometimes almost a foot.

I go to my college alumni game when they have it and I'm the oldest guy there, still striking out the college age kids!


3:57 pm on Apr 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

now at 51 yrs old

51 myself.

To keep this from fading because we're getting way off topic here and a mod may take issue with that...

So to bring it back in focus..

51 years from now this will still be a good forum.

Royals are 10 - 6 now, playing the Indians today (12-4)

We need this one bad.


4:41 pm on Apr 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

The ol' man even had a knuckleball. It's an embarrsssing pitch to throw unless you've got your stuff that day. When you're on top of it you mystify bats though. They're already thinking 3 strikes before they even get to the plate. A knuckler gets in their head as much as anything else.

Think Wakefield. He either gets shelled or he throws a 1-hit game. And as far as catching him goes... it ain't just batters he confuses. His own catcher has no idea where that ball is going either.

And the spitball. You remember Perry. My dad worked the ball too. He didn't stash sandpaper in his glove or a swab of vaseline in his cap but he let his right hand thumbnail grow a bit long and would actually carve something out of the ball... to make it move more.

And boy oh boy it did too. Moved. It danced. They couldn't friggin' hit him.

I had two pitches. Fair slider and a good fastball. Not much breaking stuff at all other than the slider and I couldn't put much on it either.

We didn't have scouting reports when I was a kid. I'm throwing to guys I don't even know about. Next game, once I've seen them, yeah, I've got a little more information now. Back then I just threw the ball and hoped they couldn't get to it.

I tried to overpower hitters with the heat but a lot of of my stuff just hung there. I served up HR's regularly and would you like some fries with that? If I was on and could hit the corners I did much better but I usually just tried to throw it right down their throat and doing that can get you taken out in the third, if not earlier.

Scouting has been refined to a fine art now. You'll know what to stay away from, what to bring, what his strengths are, what he can't hit. You'll probably even get briefed on what he had for supper last night.

Injury reports.. same thing. When you hit the bigs everything changes. Now we're in it for real.

To stay on Topic... Tim Wakefield and Gaylord Perry don't give a damn about what this forum looks like. They're here to find info on how to create their blogs and my guess is that they found it.


6:06 pm on Apr 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

Okay cool.. this thing got moved to it's own ground.

Now we can talk MrBaseball34, if you come back in I mean.

They're giving us this topic and I'd say that's pretty generous - being allowed to talk about baseball on a webmasters forum.

Yes sir.

What's your take on Bonds and what the heck is he really trying to accomplish anyway? His manager, or whoever it was, has been in jail for 3 years now because he wouldn't snitch. There was a verdict recently. One count of obstructing justice. Hung jury on 3 counts of lying. I guess his boy will get out of jail now. To spend 3 years in there though. That's either a good friend or someone who expects to get paid when they get out. There aren't two ways of looking at this one.

We all know everybody juiced, right? Canseco got it wired up though. He wrote a friggin' book about it. Named names. Called it like it was and effectively ended any association he might have been able to maintain with MLB. That was on him. But now he's gotta back it up too and he seems to have done that.

Did you ever juice? I never did. Not to say I wouldn't have if it was put right in front of me but the opportunity wasn't ever there.


6:46 pm on Apr 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Personally, I just wished he'd go away, him AND Clements.
They will never get into the HOF. I think Pete Rose should be in the HOF based on his performance as a player. So what he did what he did when he was a MGR.

I used an anti-inflammatory called ketoprophen. I got it for an inflammed patella tendon and noticed that my arm didn't hurt when I used it. I kept using it every time I pitched.

Threw complete games in both ends of a dbl-header in Phoenix one year with 14 K's in one game and 8 in the other.


7:11 pm on Apr 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

Well, you've got an arm... that's obvious. Those are some good numbers. 14 Ks in one game is good in anybodys book.

And throwing two complete games in one night? I'm surprised your manager let you do that. It sounds like you had some stuff and if I'd been coaching I'd have sat you down after one. Unless I just didn't have anybody else in the pen.

In the bigs they don't even like aces going a full 9. As you're aware, they have middle relief and closers and if you've pitched 7 innings of good ball, they'll sit you down. They don't wanna wear you out.

If you're getting hit it's a different story. If you're throwing 14 Ks, you're not getting hit though and a good manager won't let you get hit either. He'll give you some rest and bring in his relief.

What was your rotation anyway?

If I was managing, I wouldn't let you pitch both games. Not a friggin chance. I'd make sure you had some rest and some whirlpool time. I'd even get the team Dr. to ice your arm up and give you at least 3 days time off. 4 if I could. If my bullpen was deep enough, that's exactly what I'd do. You don't burn your aces up, I don't care how many games you're back or how much you need a win. You've gotta keep your starters strong. You'll need them in the stretch.

It's fine if they're throwing strong in April. You need them throwing strong in August too.


7:17 pm on Apr 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

It was a tournament, every fall in Phoenix for 30+ age group teams. Over the 12 yrs I went out there for tournaments I only lost one game. 12-1, averaged 7 K's, 2 BB and 5 hits per game.

I once held a team to one hit and then we faced them in the playoffs and our ace got rocked by the same team. My arm was jello that day so I couldn't go. I had already thrown 20 innings that week.

We didn't really have a rotation, the guy that had it that day got to throw.

I never start out a game throwing as hard as I can. I usually get good and going in the 3rd or 4th. I throw harder and better in the 7th than in the 1st. I understand how to work hitters in their counts and pitch location so I don't have to throw hard. The young players I have faced recently were just baffled by how I pitched to them because they are used to the young full of cum pitchers trying to throw it by them. They sit on fastballs, you have to fool them into out-thinking their at-bat.


7:19 pm on Apr 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Oh, BTW, I *wasn't* the ace of the staff, either.

One year, we had 2 pitchers throw 3 complete games on one week EACH!

Made the finals and got beat by a team from Fresno because we ran out of arms. I was fresh but our 2B had gotten hurt so I HAD to play 2B.


7:27 pm on Apr 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

MrBaseball34 check your "sticky mail" :) thanks.

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