Webmaster Philosophy

accepted business practices

[weeks]

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System: The following 6 messages were cut out of thread at: http://www.webmasterworld.com/foo/4272487.htm [webmasterworld.com] by lawman - 2:30 am on Feb 27, 2011 (est -5)

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This is a serious issue for independent webmasters. There are some in our business who strive to maintain websites so that their clients are at least somewhat dependent on their services, or worse. I go the opposite direction.

This is a major issue for large corporations as well as small businesses and non-profits. Webmasters are human. They screw up, they get sick, they die. (And, BTW, so do computers.)

What I do is help firms be as independent as possible from the obvious human factor (and their all-too-human computers). It's not always easy and, really, it is impossible to some extent. But, ignoring this issue (which is done more than we will admit) is not professional.

[edited by: lawman at 7:38 am (utc) on Feb 27, 2011]
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[wyweb]

There are some in our business who strive to maintain websites so that their clients are at least somewhat dependent on their services

I do that right now. I've been doing it for some time. We provide turnkey services. I'll buy your domain, I'll build your website, I'll host it for you and I'll get you on a maintenance contract for periodic updates if you want. I like nothing better than getting a customer locked into something like that.

What I do is help firms be as independent as possible

I don't help firms be independent. I want them depending on me. I want my customers needing my services. I add to the bill just for a friggin' phone call.

[edited by: lawman at 7:32 am (utc) on Feb 27, 2011]
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[weeks]

I want them depending on me.

That's fine, until they cannot depend on you.

You're right, wyweb. I am your competition. I've gotten this exact same response from other webmasters in my industry. And it's a tough way to go because you need lots of new business. Thank goodness for push for "social" features, which is bringing in all of the work we need.

Several web pros I know are are moving over to my business model because of the issues "future" outlined. One good friend of mine in this biz is not as blessed as he, not having family people in the business to help out. Moving to my model saved his sanity and more during his divorce.

That's how he and I coped. It does take a different skill set than traditional web site building business and it is not for everyone, but let me tell you, vacations and emergencies are a lot easier to handle.

Don't take this personally, but the vast majority of clients had someone like you to get them going, but the expense and hassle got out of hand, so their friends put them on to me. You, of course, have done all of the hard work already--the hardest work being getting the client to sit down and think about what they want and need to do re the web. And then re-doing it and re-doing it again. And again, until they have it figured out.

I am almost finished two "from scratch" websites, and, whew... what a pain. My advice to you: Raise your rates.

[wyweb]

My advice to you: Raise your rates.

Well, I'm not that cheap to begin with brother. I'm not an industry leader by any means but unless you're a non-profit I don't give anything away. I bill clients simply for talking to them on the phone sometimes. Or loading up my inbox. Especially if I've already answered the question once. Ask me twice and I'll bill you for it. And you will pay. My business model gets you locked in and you won't have any choice. I won't hold your website hostage. I'll simply terminate your service. You won't exist on the web anymore. My contract allows me to do that. It rarely goes that far but if I have to I'll pull the trigger.

That's fine, until they cannot depend on you.

The only way they can not depend on me is if they run out of money. As long as my expectations are being met financially, expectations which are clearly spelled out in our initial agreement, I'll bend over backwards to do the best job I possibly can for my client. I've invited them to my house before, gone fishing with them, been a guest in their house... I have customers who I now consider as friends. I've had international clients who I don't even work for anymore that I'll call on the phone just because I like the way they talk.

This is a job though, okay? It's not fun anymore. It's work, and I started treating it as such years ago.

[edited by: lawman at 12:13 pm (utc) on Feb 27, 2011]
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[weeks]

My business model gets you locked in and you won't have any choice. I won't hold your website hostage. I'll simply terminate your service. You won't exist on the web anymore. My contract allows me to do that.

And I remember when that was the way it was for many. And, people didn't really care--it was just the website, after all. Now, with the web having become so important for many enterprises, people are getting spooked by that kind of agreement. It's a growing niche.

But, my point here is that this "locked in" deal can be tough on the webmaster, too. My way is one solution that might help Future or others cope with the stress doing it all.

I got started with this when one gal much like you sending her two tight with a penny & annoying clients to me, telling them, "You don't need me anymore. Weeks can help you." It was a win-win-win.

Your point about billing for everything hits home. It's hard to charge $50 to add a semicolon, but you have to do that or they'll drive you nuts. After we say job done, we're gone. And it works fine. I have given two sites over to a stay at home mom who does the keyboarding for them, etc. Otherwise, they like doing it themselves.

[wyweb]

But, my point here is that this "locked in" deal can be tough on the webmaster, too

Oh no doubt. If you have deadbeat clients... absolutely. I can size customers up fairly well though. I get into their head quick and they don't even know I've done it. I can have a fairly accurate assessment of what they're wanting and what they're willing to spend in an hour on the phone. I've never done anything strictly by email. I want to hear your voice.

I got started with this...

I got started because I had a gripe and the web seemed to be able to give me the widest possible audience to share it with, or shove it down someone's throat, as the case might have been.

I wasn't looking for a job. I had one already and I was paid well. I was looking for a way to vent and it worked out okay. I used a sitebuilder on Homestead and told people I was pissed off. It was cheaper than buying space in my newspaper. Or buying mailers, or printing out flyers and sticking them under peoples windshield wipers.

And it worked. It also exposed me to the fact that there was money to be made on the net. A LOT of money. 16 year old kids were becoming overnight millionaires because they had the right idea at the right time....

[edited by: lawman at 7:35 am (utc) on Feb 27, 2011]
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[wyweb]

It's hard to charge $50 to add a semicolon, but you have to do that or they'll drive you nuts.

I don't charge 50.00 for adding a semicolon. I bill by the time that's required to finish the task. I can get a semicolon added and uploaded in about 2.3 seconds. 2.5 on slow days. My job is to also ask you if you know proper sentence structure. If the semicolon is clearly misplaced, it's my responsibility to let you know that. You're my client and I will take care of you. You have veto power though. Always. You can go totally against what I advise and I'll run with it. I will tell you ahead of time that I don't agree with it though. If you still insist, well, it's your website.

The customer is not always right. I try to treat them like they are as much as possible though. But I don't draw a whole lot of lines either. If I see someone clearly making a mistake, and this has happened a number of times, I will point it out. I'll point out options as well. I'll indicate my preferences. If they still insist on making a stupid move, I'll do it for them. I'll do it for free. When they later ask me to change that stupid move is when I'll stick the bill in their butt.

It's their site. My job is to advise, collect information and then get busy and get it done. They have the authority to overrule me though. As long it's not illegal, or pron, or hate related, I'll put it up for you. I'll get you out there and I'll get you seen too.

I'll add a semicolon in a minute, even in the wrong place. Tell me you want it removed the next day, this after I've already advised to use a comma instead, and I'll charge you for it.

[weeks]

You're providing a much needed service by many people, wyweb. And I do that kind of thing as well. For billing, we call it a monthly retainer fee on an annual contract. (I only have two of these.)

But, you might be interested to know that on both of these contracts it's not connected to the web directly. Yes, I'll put text on pages and such, but we're not webmasters anymore, at least in the traditional sense. (And, yeah, right now I'm producing a PPT for one of these clients and looking at the work to be done on this, it's obviously way outside the scope of the retainer. But how much? There is something to be said for billing by the hour...)

Quite frankly, the reason we left the webmaster biz is that we could not keep up with the technology. I've got one vendor, a small (about 75 people) who has a bunch of coders we can hire. I used them twice last year for PHP coding at $225 an hour; paid them about $10,000.

The recession has helped my biz model, but I think it has more to do with companies wanting to manage budget, management and technological risk.

I'll add a semicolon in a minute, even in the wrong place. Tell me you want it removed the next day, this after I've already advised to use a comma instead, and I'll charge you for it.

Righto. Exactly. And it goes on and on, around and around and around. I said to heck with it, here's the keys, you drive. But, your way is a completely legit and reasonable model. But I cannot cope with it.

I can size customers up fairly well though.

Not me. I'm always surprised. Always.

[wyweb]

Quite frankly, the reason we left the webmaster biz is that we could not keep up with the technology.

Well, I'm behind too. I haven't got on board with mobile yet and all social media does is tick me off. Those are rapidly advancing factors though. They need to be addressed.

I can size customers up fairly well though.

Not me. I'm always surprised. Always.

I think I smell money better than you do weeks. You've got a softer heart. I can get downright mercenary. Customers do surprise me at times. They occasionally propose idiotic stuff that is not best practice and I can't talk them out of it. Some college friend of theirs told them keyword stuffing was still cool... or hidden text. I won't refuse to do it though.

I won't host them if they insist though and this has come up before. I'll screw their website up but I won't put it on my server. Not a chance.

[edited by: wyweb at 7:41 pm (utc) on Feb 27, 2011]

[jecasc]

And it's a tough way to go because you need lots of new business.

I don't charge 50.00 for adding a semicolon. I bill by the time that's required to finish the task. I can get a semicolon added and uploaded in about 2.3 seconds. 2.5 on slow days. My job is to also ask you if you know proper sentence structure.

I started the same way. I charged the time I needed for a task and charged what I considered a fair hourly fee. The problem was I was too good and too fast and ended up charging 500 EUR for what my competitors would have charged 2000 EUR. I would have needed 4 times the customers than most others in the business. A customer would call me with a problem I would solve it in ten minutes and then charge nothing at all, after all it was only a few minutes and it wasn't really work it was fun. Then he would call two days later ask for some advice and I would charge nothing again. I thought, hey - I couldn't possibly charge just for talking on the phone to somebody. I knew I was selling myself to cheap but wasn't able to do something about it.

The solution for me was not to work for clients anymore but to start my own projects.

[weeks]

The solution for me was not to work for clients anymore but to start my own projects.

I tried that with a partner. We're still paying off the debts. Ha.

Well, I'm behind too. I haven't got on board with mobile yet and all social media does is tick me off. Those are rapidly advancing factors though. They need to be addressed.

It's not as bad as you think. It's a lot worse. First, be calm. Second, remember to be calm. It took me an entire week to get the basics of FB down, then they changed it. Doctors, lawyers and other professionals (webmasters, for example) need to stay away from Facebook and Twitter professionally, but the potential cannot be ignored for many clients.
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