Mariposa Virus Botnet Hacker Arrested

[engine]

Mariposa Virus Botnet Hacker Arrested [bbc.co.uk]

A computer hacker known as Iserdo has been arrested in Slovenia.

The 23-year-old is believed to have written the programme behind the mariposa virus, also known as butterfly.

"To use an analogy here, as opposed to arresting the guy who broke into your home, we've arrested the guy that gave him the crowbar, the map and the best houses in the neighbourhood," Jeffrey Troy, deputy assistant director for the FBI cyber division told Associated Press.

[yaix2]

If virus writers knew that detection and capture would result in a sentence that reflected the total cost of their crime, many more would deterred than by the threat

Again: you would think so. But criminals tent to think in a different way, that is why the "deterrent" strategy usually fails. So what's the point of putting some guy in prison for so long? Just revenge?

Teach him that what he did was wrong. It makes that person better and society as whole.

[kaled]

criminals tend to think in a different way, that is why the "deterrent" strategy usually fails

Virus-writers are not typical criminals so assuming that they think as such is just plain wrong. Also, if deterrence doesn't work, why is it that I haven't ever robbed a bank, etc?

Teach him that what he did was wrong.

If he doesn't understand that he did wrong then he may instruct his lawyer to defend him on that basis i.e. plead not guilty by reason of mental defect - most countries allow for a defence of that sort.

Kaled.

[steve40]

I think the biggest issue here is about how the world has embraced the Internet but not agreed on a way to address crimes committed on or via the net.

If we take counterfeit currency as an example most of the world works in tandem with justice departments because nearly every country understands the cost of not working together, I do not think governments understand the true impact or can react quickly enough to fast changing Internet Crime or have come to an understanding of who should be held responsible and to what degree ( The Code Writer, The Distributor or the crime syndicate at the back end that makes the money ).

If they do not come to some consensus those involved will work from countries where they become sort of untouchable.

[Samizdata]

if deterrence doesn't work, why is it that I haven't ever robbed a bank, etc?

I would like to think it is because you are an normal, decent, reasonable member of society.

But you appear to be suggesting that you are not, and that the only thing stopping you from engaging in a life of serious crime is your fear of being caught and punished (possibly by public guillotining).

I suppose I will have to take your word for it.

...

[wyweb]

if deterrence doesn't work, why is it that I haven't ever robbed a bank, etc?

Or killed someone? Or blown up a school full of children? Or made meth in your basement?

Why? Because it's wrong and you're aware of that.

Most criminals are aware that what they're doing is wrong as well. They do it anyway because one, they don't think they'll get caught, or two, because that immediate need/gratification thing outweighs potential risk.

[kaled]

Most people have stolen from their employers, even if it's only a stapler, or a day taken off sick when perfectly well. This being the case, the argument that most people are honest and do the right thing because they know it's the right thing rather than because of consequences is naive to say the least.

Deterrence works, not perfectly, but it works. The idea that virus writers should be slapped on the wrist (assuming that doesn't breach their human rights) and told not to be naughty again is absurd.

Crime is very low in Singapore. Is that because they have one of the best police forces in the world, some of the most honest people in the world or one of the toughest punishment regimes in the world?

Whilst it is true that criminals often believe they won't get caught, if punishments are too light, they often don't care if they are caught. This is patently true of children who habitually commit minor crimes in the knowledge that they'll simply be cautioned if caught. Often they'll continue to hold the law in complete contempt as adults, but sometimes, when they realise that they will actually be punished properly as adults, they become relatively normal human beings.

Deterrence works, not perfectly, but it works.

Kaled.

[LifeinAsia]

I would modify Kaled's a bit:
Deterrence works, not perfectly, but it certainly works better than a lack of deterrence.

[wyweb]

Deterrence works.. sure it does. If you've raised kids you know good and well that deterrence works. Kids, like criminals (and I'm not real comfortable making this comparision) know the penalty and gauge the risk involved. Break curfew and get grounded for a week.

Two choices here:

1. Well, it's only a week so it might be worth it to do it this one time.

Or,

2. I've got a date on Thursday and can NOT afford to get grounded so I better be home by 9:00.

Risk/Penalty/Reward.. This is sociology 101 people.

What we seem to be doing now is defining criminal behavior in different classifications. It's okay to steal a ream of paper from work because one, the value of the property is insignificant and two, the consequences of getting caught are basically nothing. I might get reprimanded but so what? I'm not going to jail. Make paper stealing a jailable offense and will ream theft go down. Sure it will.

The idea that virus writers should be slapped on the wrist (assuming that doesn't breach their human rights) and told not to be naughty again is absurd.

Yes it is. And, if he's found guilty, he should certainly be punished. Why waste him though? Make him work. He's got skills. Criminal justice needs a major overhaul. It needs to look beyond warehousing prisoners for years and years on end and then turning them back out into society with ZERO social skills or inclination to learn them. Do that and guess what? They go back to the only mindest they know. We haven't taught them anything.

[Samizdata]

The idea that virus writers should be slapped on the wrist... is absurd

The real absurdity is the notion that 2-4 years in prison (as suggested) is a "slap on the wrist".

This thread has been notable for such fatuous comparisons.

I don't know if any of you have ever been inside a prison, but I have and it is not pleasant.*

Depriving someone of their freedom for a period of years in such a place is very real punishment.

Not as severe as public execution, obviously, but justice is not about pleasing the bloodthirsty.

If it was, none of us would be safe.

* Visiting someone who was later acquitted - rather more than a slapped wrist for an innocent man.

...

[yaix2]

Most people have stolen from their employers, even if it's only a stapler,

And most people have worked overtime without getting money for it, its just small give and taked from both sides, not a crime.

If you've raised kids you know good and well that deterrence works.

Exactly my point. Deterrent works with kids, because they are /not/ criminals. Again: criminals do not make the pro/contra analysis you are describing that your kids do. That is the difference, and the reason why deterrence works with your kids and not with criminals.

[onepointone]

The way I look at it, you can't just divide people into two groups:
Incorrigable Criminals & Saintly Do-Gooders.

There's lots of shades of grey in there.

And even most of the really 'bad' people don't run amok 16 hrs a day. They have some sense of risk vs. reward like most other people do. Just adjusted differently.

Get rid of the 'risk' part of the equation tomorrow and see what happens, wouldn't be pretty...
The "deterrent" isn't just for the good guys.

[Maurice]

@Samizdata

indeed and in eastern europe prizons are very grim places