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When heavy snowfall threatened to scupper Paul Chambers's travel plans, he decided to vent his frustrations on Twitter by tapping out a comment to amuse his friends. "Robin Hood airport is closed," he wrote. "You've got a week and a bit to get your #*$! together, otherwise I'm blowing the airport sky high!"Unfortunately for Mr Chambers, the police didn't see the funny side.
As a traveler, I don't see that as very funny, either.
Hard to believe this guy is 26 years old! :O
I also wonder if people truly understand the nature of social media and how public it is.
After he was released on bail, he was ... been banned from the Doncaster airport for life.Nice touch!
"The police's actions seem laughable and suggest desperation in their efforts to combat terrorism..."Yeah, but how many times after the fact have the police and other agencies been taken to task because they ignored similar messages and didn't take actions that could have prevented a terrorist act?
But I still think that they are taking it too far. Investigate it yes, punishing him to that degree is shows me that they can't tell the difference between an innocent comment taken out of context and an actual threat.
Are they suggesting this guy is actually a threat to the airport?
As a traveler, I don't see that as very funny, either.
I'm seeing a lot more of that lately, especially with the tightening down on travel restrictions. Total non-thinkers who are stupid enough to vent their frustrations to a global audience, and do so in a manner that can be construed as terroristic.
Are they suggesting this guy is actually a threat to the airport?
Would you prefer to wait and find out?
No longer the case, and we put that into place under the guise of "anti-terrorism." We have allowed our fears to override our own "common sense" and those fears are now taking the form of legislation.
A parallel, was watching a stupid TV court drama the other day, BF/GF had a parting, he kept calling her so she slapped a stalking charge on him. Now it's on his record for life.
Knowing men, he probably deserved it. But I've been the target of a spiteful ex in my past, and without reason have had claims placed against me (no charges, but nonetheless, they are on record, and they are on record for life.) Not a thing I can do about it either.
Agreed, it was an idiotic thing for this guy to do, knowing what we know now. But from here out, it's only going to get worse, as we're slowly convinced that we need to offer up one right after another in the interest of "anti-terrorism."
Would you prefer to wait and find out?
No, which is why I said investigate it, then punish accordingly.
Was he a moron for saying that?
Yes,
Should he be investigated?
Yes,
Should he be punished as a criminal after the investigation shows it was a case of bad judgment not a crime?
No,
Consider how many people utter "I'll kill him" during a divorce or heated argument. Do we really believe that they should all be charged with uttering death threats and conspiracy to commit murder?
I am not saying don't investigate, I am saying punish accordingly.
It used to be that saying a thing, or expressing a thought, no matter how bizarre or harmful, was covered by our constitution.
Should he be punished as a criminal after the investigation shows it was a case of bad judgment not a crime?
No,
Many people talk about the loss of freedoms lately. Yet there is also an increase in the lack of taking responsibility for ones actions. Yeah, people do stupid things. But the last time I checked, "stupid" was not a protected class of people that is above the law. If you take away any responsibility from people acting stupidly, that will just encourage people to act more stupidly more often.
[edited by: LifeinAsia at 8:47 pm (utc) on Jan. 18, 2010]
It used to be that saying a thing, or expressing a thought, no matter how bizarre or harmful, was covered by our constitution.
Free speech doesn't extend to actions like threats...unless you think people should be allowed to skip around airports saying they're going to kill everyone? A bit of exaggeration there but we have to set some limits on the rule.
Then "stupidity" would quickly overtake "temporary insanity" as a major plea to get off.Many people talk about the loss of freedoms lately. Yet there is also an increase in the lack of taking responsibility for ones actions. Yeah, people do stupid things. But the last time I checked, "stupid" was not a protected class of people that is above the law. If you take away any responsibility from people acting stupidly, that will just encourage people to act more stupidly more often.
I mostly agree with this but.... he is being charged with "conspiring to create a bomb hoax"
Does making a public comment, jokingly or in anger, really constitute a real conspiracy or even intent?
Some laws don't work this way, for example if he, as a joke, put poop on someone's porch and did a "ding-dong-dash" then joking or not he committed a crime.
I just don't think by uttering what he said he actually committed a crime. If there was intent, or some planning that occurred to further this conspiracy then I can see it, but the fact is he had no intentions or plans to do anything harmful.
If I put on Twitter that I will "level this place if I fail my test", the school may call the cops BUT I shouldn't be charged with conspiracy to commit a school shooting or any crime for that matter.
A bad, tasteless joke doesn't equal conspiracy. Where this guy went wrong is when he made a joke about an Airport or Airplane.... anything else and it wouldn't have even been entertained by the authorities as a problem.
Free speech doesn't extend to actions like threats.
After the investigation shows that it wasn't a real threat only a bad joke then what?
It makes me think of the Al Franken parody case where Fox news tried to argue that since his book didn't say "parody" or "satire" that it was ambiguous as to what the message was
This caused the judge and the courtroom to burst out laughing. I think the judge said something in his ruling to the effect of "You don't have to find it funny for it to be satire"
Many people talk about the loss of freedoms lately. Yet there is also an increase in the lack of taking responsibility for ones actions.
The Founding Fathers recognized that people must be governed either from within themselves, or from external forces. The less of one, the more of the other there must be. (That's close to an exact quote, although I can't remember who said it at the moment.)
That's also where the line in "America the Beautiful" comes from: "Confirm thy soul in self-control, thy liberty in law."
Sadly, "liberty" has come to mean "licentiousness" in far too many people's thoughts, which naturally spoils liberty for the rest of us, too.
If I put on Twitter that I will "level this place if I fail my test", the school may call the cops BUT I shouldn't be charged with conspiracy to commit a school shooting or any crime for that matter.
Well, you know that it's not a conspiracy, but in the world of the internet it's impossible to know if your message was or was not received by a co-conspirator.
The OF (original fool) is indeed an idiot, and venting in such a way is clearly stupid. I don't fly and I know better than to make any threat, real or imagined, to any airport.. or hospital, or a school, or the White House.... Common Sense does indeed appear to be on the decline. Legislation is not really the answer. I say lock up his parents, and all of his teachers too, for failing to realize the guy is a moron, and for not doing something about it long before now.
And revoke his Twitter account! Perhaps then he'll actually spend a few minutes of his day using his brain.
Maybe its not just his common sense thats out the window...
Was he a moron for saying that?
That word came to mind when I read this too.
he will be told whether or not he will be charged with conspiring to create a bomb hoax.
I know nothing about law, but from what I gather from this, it must be illegal to create a hoax about a bomb, which actually makes sense. I guess because of the panic it can cause, and other repercussions - there may never actually be a bomb at all, but the threat of such could cause a lot of fear and damage.
The other thing that comes to mind is slander - where does the balance between freedom of speech and slander come? I'm sure it's illegal to go around saying stuff that makes other people look really bad...but that's what this 'freedom of speech' means, right? There must be a limit. Like, you don't have total freedom of speech in a court of law - don't you have to tell the truth? That's not complete freedom.
I think the police did ok in this. This guy is a tool. Good to make an example of him, at least.
People used to make jokes like that all the time.
Good! Hopefully they punish everyone for making worthless comments on Twitter, and then maybe..just maybe...Twitter will disappear forever.
LOL Twitter is where worthless comments go to die.
But I still think that they are taking it too far. Investigate it yes, punishing him to that degree is shows me that they can't tell the difference between an innocent comment taken out of context and an actual threat.
The risk of lowering the punishment increases the chances of similar stupid remarks, especially when stupid people realise they just get away with a mild slap. I don't think there are any 'innocent' remarks of this kind, and the police were right, imho.
graeme_p
It was obviously a joke, not a threat.
People used to make jokes like that all the time.
How do you know it was a joke at the time? Even if it is, think about the ramifications of that 'joke.' Potentially, hundreds of flights delayed or cancelled, thousands of people inconvenienced, financial ramifications for workers and businesses.
There's no place for that kind of stupidity, today, imho.
jbinbpt
Twitter is where worthless comments go to die.
That comment by the 26 y/o should, however, that's a sweeping statement and is not quite correct. Those comments don't, they are indexed and remain in a timeline. Of course, the vast majority of nonsense should wither away.
It was obviously a joke, not a threat.
People used to make jokes like that all the time.
Did they announce them to the world? Making posts on Twitter, which go out to everyone with an internet connection, is not the same as making an aside to your friend.
It's common knowledge that you can't make jokes about bombs at all in an airport these days.
Did they announce them to the world?
People did do things like make jokes about bombs in the airport, to security, customs or immigration.
It's common knowledge that you can't make jokes about bombs at all in an airport these days.
Yes, because a terrorist is sure to draw attention to themselves by joking about bombs. Someone's choice of jokes is irrelevant to the odds that they are a risk.
Its all part of the completely over the top security theatre. Are we safer because people no longer make bomb jokes? Is all this proportionate to the comparatively small threat?
Yes, because a terrorist is sure to draw attention to themselves by joking about bombs. Someone's choice of jokes is irrelevant to the odds that they are a risk.
I never said it made complete sense, I just said you don't get to make jokes out loud in an airport.
Its all part of the completely over the top security theatre. Are we safer because people no longer make bomb jokes? Is all this proportionate to the comparatively small threat?
Of course we're not any safer. Hell, every laptop that's brought on a plane is a potential bomb if used in that manner. However, I think they need the illusion of increased safety though to keep people flying and try to keep the crazies from thinking they can pull stunts.
The threat is minuscule in the big picture; you have a better chance dying driving to the airport. After 9/11 though...well, airports just take it all really seriously. Best to be safe then sorry.
People did do things like make jokes about bombs in the airport, to security, customs or immigration.
Yes, because a terrorist is sure to draw attention to themselves by joking about bombs.
Humor is very subjective. What is funny to one person may not be funny to others. What one person considers a joke potentially causes hundreds or thousands of people to have their plans delayed, possibly missing connecting flights and having to waste even more of their time.
If you jump out of the shadows and scare an old man who then has a heart attack and dies, do you think he (or his relatives) will care that you were just making a joke? There's a possibility you'd be tried and convicted of a crime. It doesn't matter much whether you intended to kill the person or not. The result is that he died as a direct result of your actions. People need to be held accountable for their actions. Period.
Nothing excuses vandalism or releases the criminal from responsibility for their actions. But this kid is not a terrorist, he's a troubled teen.
The risk of lowering the punishment increases the chances of similar stupid remarks, especially when stupid people realise they just get away with a mild slap.
But what law did he break? You actually have to break a law to be punished.
There's no place for that kind of stupidity, today, imho.
But are there laws against it?
Did they announce them to the world? Making posts on Twitter, which go out to everyone with an internet connection, is not the same as making an aside to your friend.It's common knowledge that you can't make jokes about bombs at all in an airport these days.
Not quite, I don't think the world follows this guys twitter account. If he only has friends following him then it could be argued that it was only meant to be for his friends... it is like saying something in a public place, like a mall and someone it wasn't meant for overhears.
Are we safer because people no longer make bomb jokes?
Great point.
I wonder when really bad taste became a crime?
A family gets pictures of their kids in the tub developed at Walmart and is arrested for child #*$!.
A man makes a joke about how an airport "better be open for my flight or else" and is banned for life and charged with a crime.
I understand that this is an era of heightened risk and security but we need to insert some sense into the system.
Having a 9 month old on the "no fly" list is embarrassing.
Where the man power is going? No wonder people are getting on flights with nail files and bottle openers, because while they board the planes with a forgotten letter opener security is looking at people's jokes on Twitter.
Then "stupidity" would quickly overtake "temporary insanity" as a major plea to get off.
The criminalization of stupidity, coupled with a system of retributive (vs. corrective) justice is rapidly bankrupting many States in the US.
I have sometimes wondered who will act as keepers when the entire population has a felony record?
I understand that this is an era of heightened risk and security but we need to insert some sense into the system.
There is no heightened risk. Terrorism is not a significant threat compared to other dangers - there are far fewer deaths from pure terrorism* globally than from murders in the US alone (which is a little less than 20,000/year), and murder is less of a threat than car accidents (even in the US, which has a high murder rate).
*by pure terrorism I mean attacks on civilians by covert means (e.g. not by uniformed soldiers or irregulars) aimed at causing fear - PR by violence. I am excluding a lot of deaths that are counted in some government stats because they are rebellion/insurgency rather than terrorism.
But what law did he break? You actually have to break a law to be punished.
UK: The Terrorism Act. It's yet to be proven he's guilty of the alleged conspiracy to create a bomb hoax. It may not get any further.
Either way, it's a stupid thing to do. I go back to the lack of common sense, and I don't believe there is law on that, sadly.
