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Web Music Rights Confusion

The laws aren't clear

         

rtroxel

5:36 pm on Dec 9, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm webmaster for two (non-profit) alumni sites and I'm concerned about music rights. I know that there have been recent crack-downs on posting copywritten songs and music, but it's never been made clear what the rules are. I've visited the BMI and ASCAP sites, and, of course, everything there is in obfuscated legalese, because they don't want any music posted on the Web at all. Nonetheless, on YouTube and elsewhere, people continue to upload music and videos from many pop bands, as well as scenes from Hollywood films. And these are viewed by thousands of people daily!

My two small websites would probably attract more visitors (alumni), if I added a good sound track (in our case, 1960s rock), but I don't want ASCAP's lawyers suing us, either.

Has anyone here had experience posting copywritten music and/or videos on their sites?

Thanks, in advance,

Roy

Demaestro

6:42 pm on Dec 9, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Since I am not a lawyer this isn't legal advise but I can tell you a couple things.

The reason YouTube has those videos and songs is almost always because either:

1) The owner of the rights allows it for promotion and to collect ad revenue
2) There is enough original content to allow for the song.

Real Examples of reason #1:
I uploaded a video of my girlfriend getting tattooed, I used a song as the only audio for the video. Youtube flagged the video because it's filters recognized the song, when I looked at the flag comments it said the audio belongs to a thrid party but the video remains live but some ads may appear next to my video.

Another video I uploaded was of my dogs running around being cute, it too had a song as the audio for the video, but when that video got flagged the audio was actually stripped out and the message told me that the content owner doesn't allow this use of it's content and it gave me tools to add new audio from an approved list.

Example of reason #2:
You create a video where you want to review a new album, so you get on camera and start talking about the album, maybe talk about the cover art and band members... then you could play a few bars from each song and then stop and give your review of each song without having played it in it's entirety. So in your video most of the audio is you talking and since you are doing a review and not copy the entire album or song you are well within "Fair Use" of the content.

The reason that Youtube can do this is because they have the filters that check for copyrighted works and action is taken, also they have a method for content creators to claim ownership over content in videos and they strictly adhere to the rules of DMCA.

If you want to straight up copy someone's music and post it then you are in the legal wrong. If you can ask and get permission then you are golden.

The other option is to find works that aren't protected by copyright, so either really old stuff or stuff released on a public license.

rtroxel

2:05 am on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks!

It's an interesting marketing scheme. The artists give YouTube permission to allow people to post sub-standard videos and music, in hopes that viewers will buy the originals?

swa66

1:27 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Google negotiates with content owners over use on Youtube, and even the they end up in court every so often.

Don't think you can afford to run the risk.

What you could try is to get a unknown group (not signed up with any label or "rights management" entity. And have them create an original work and play it for your site. Next have them sign over the right to use it and pay them: done: you now own the right to use it and nobody can stop you anymore. Even if they try: they cannot win.
It doesn't work for a cover: needs to be original.

I've once almost been given permission by an author of a song to use his song. He understood music rights quite well (many covers of his world famous song exist). He gave me a private recording where he sang the song playing on the piano himself (hence he's the author, he's the performer and producer of it all in his home studio).
The record label he was linked to still would not sign off on letting him give me permission to use it ...

So yes, I've an original CD-R of a well known artist (now passed away), playing a well know song of his in his home studio accompanying himself on the piano, where the artist wanted me to publish it on the web, yet the lawyers of the music industry stopped it regardless.

And that was years before they declared war on the Internet.

StoutFiles

3:27 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The reason YouTube has those videos and songs is almost always because either:

1) The owner of the rights allows it for promotion and to collect ad revenue
2) There is enough original content to allow for the song.

3) The copyright owner doesn't know their song is being used.

rtroxel

3:57 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks again. I had forgotten that Google owns YouTube.

I think the safest thing for me to do is purchase a CD of "generic" music. That way, the rights are already paid for, and some of the music on those CDs isn't bad.

Demaestro

5:16 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Make sure that the music on that disk is under a public license.

Just because it is generic doesn't mean someone doesn't own the copyrights to it.


The artists give YouTube permission to allow people to post sub-standard videos and music, in hopes that viewers will buy the originals?

I think it is more about exposure then it is hoping that 1000 views will turn into 1 sale.

swa.... that sucks that you can't share that track with the public on your site... the upside? In 80 years when it goes into the public domain you will have a true gem on your hands.

rocknbil

8:03 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Has anyone here had experience posting copywritten music and/or videos on their sites?

Yes. A background track for a performance in a video. We contacted the publisher via email, their first interest was the "venue" and how much money was to be made. Since it was a display only of a non-profit performance, there was none. After a bit of back and forth, they agreed to license "for one year" for a $100 administrative fee and appropriate copyright markings. Took them 6 months to actually get us the paperwork. After submission, we've never heard from them, it's been several years.

In reality, my overall impression was that it's more of a pain for them to allow publication than it is to ignore the problem, but we did it anyway.

swa66

3:32 am on Dec 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



In 80 years when it goes into the public domain you will have a true gem on your hands.

In 80 years I'm very likely not to be around unless medicine makes giant leaps forward nor interested should I still be I guess.

jecasc

11:20 am on Dec 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



If you want to use music on your website, check which performance right agency represents the artist (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC), then go on the organizations website and get a license.

For example you can search for artist on the BMI website and apply for licenses directly on the BMI website. I think the minimum fee is about 320$/year.

If you want to use songs on your website, check her for example:

[bmi.com...]

The reason why you can upload songs and videos on youtube is, that Google has licensed many videos and songs for use by their users. Thats also the reason why many videos are only available in a limited number of countries. If you upload a video with music that google has licensed in the US it might not play in Germany or France because it is not licensed with the local performance rights agency.

swa66

4:04 pm on Dec 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The main problem is that they sell rights based on a physical territory, and hence your website would need geotargeting and whatnot to prevent access from outside where you have acquired a license for.

That and the minimum along with the reporting of revenue etc. makes it far less desirable over grabbing a few teenagers off of the street and having them compose and play a song in the style you need and pay them for _all_ rights of it.