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NASA hacker to make House of Lords appeal on Monday

Will he go this time?

     
6:19 pm on Jun 17, 2008 (gmt 0)
9:07 pm on Jun 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Anyone stupid enough to cleverly hack into a US government agency or agencies deserves to be extradited.

I can't believe I am backing the US govt, but he deserves to be made an example of.

9:15 pm on Jun 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



He is not even an American citizen

Precisely, and he did not commit any crime on American soil.

He claims of what he found there (but of course he was not technically capable to make even screenshot) are so laughable it is not even worth mentioning them.

Yes? Do you really believe that?

this English guy isn't part of "the public" that owns it.

He is not English.

I can't believe I am backing the US govt, but he deserves to be made an example of.

I can think of many thousands of hackers and online criminals that I consider to be more deserving of punishment than this guy. But then they cannot catch them, can they?

9:19 pm on Jun 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I can think of many thousands of hackers and online criminals that I consider to be more deserving of punishment than this guy. But then they cannot catch them, can they?

I am sure they will be dealt with in good time.

But hacking into a US Government agency is just plain idiocy.

There are just some things you should not do, unless you are prepared to get into deep &%$! over it.

9:39 pm on Jun 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I can think of many thousands of hackers and online criminals that I consider to be more deserving of punishment than this guy.

Well I don't think you or anyone else can make that determination because we really have no idea what he hacked but considering the targets they very well could have contained some very sensitive data. As I mentioned before hacking for example a bank isn't any comparison to hacking into computers that could possibly put peoples lives at risk or compromise the national security of the U.S.

The argument they are public computers is ludicrous, if he stumbled upon some computers he was able to just waltz into then it may be an argument. There's laws that make trying to break security and protection measures a crime which is apparently what he did.

10:02 pm on Jun 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator lifeinasia is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



He is not even an American citizen

Precisely, and he did not commit any crime on American soil.

Already pointed out that the computers ARE on American soil and therefore the crime WAS committed on American soil.

I can think of many thousands of hackers and online criminals that I consider to be more deserving of punishment than this guy. But then they cannot catch them, can they?

That's some of the worst logic I've ever heard! So because the U.S. can not find Osama bin Laden, NO terrorist should be punished? Because Public Enenmy #1 hasn't been caught, Public Enemies #2-#200 are free to go about their business? Because the police haven't caught a guy who has killed 5 people, the man who murdered your wife is free shouldn't be punished?
10:46 pm on Jun 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The argument they are public computers is ludicrous

No, it's not. It's quite important to McKinnon's defence. If an administration, the legitimacy of which rests on defending the public interest, then conceals information on publicly paid-for systems in its own interest and against the public interest, this, itself, is an illegitimate act and one would be hard-pressed to argue that undermining such an illegitimate act in order to revert the status quo to democratic norms is a crime.

As such McKinnon's defence is internally consistent. Whether it actually fits the facts or whether it is a narrative concocted after the perpetration of a foolish and pointless criminal act of snooping is a matter yet to be determined.

I accept that McKinnon is not a US citizen and agree that it's not really his place to undertake unilateral action to safeguard US democratic freedoms (since that does appear, more or less, to be what he is claiming to have been up to).

11:17 pm on Jun 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Precisely, and he did not commit any crime on American soil.

And Osama bin Laden is not American citizen either and never committed crimes on American soil, or did he?

This is really a trivial case - what the guy now does is waste UK taxpayer money on his hopeless case, I am pretty certain he is not paying his lawyers to do all this work and it is very expensive - I'd be suprised if that cost less than 250k, for this alone (taxpayer money waste) he deserves to go to jail, but for the rubbish he spouts to "justify" his actions he should get the chair in my view.

Just look at what this guy says: "Old-age pensioners can't pay their fuel bills, countries are invaded to award oil contracts to the West, and meanwhile secretive parts of the secret government are sitting on suppressed technology for free energy."

Ok, so this guy was rooting for pensions on Unix boxes, trying to get them free energy, LOL!

12:57 am on Jun 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It's quite important to McKinnon's defence

He better pack his bags then. :P

8:20 am on Jun 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



That's some of the worst logic I've ever heard! So because the U.S. can not find Osama bin Laden, NO terrorist should be punished?

And that is some of the worst logic I have ever heard.

2:32 pm on Jun 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator lawman is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Can we agree that when we start attacking each other's logic substantive discussion is over?
3:30 pm on Jun 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Probably.

But I love the way that both McKinnon and the Washington administration claim to be representing the best interests of the US public and demonising the other party.

You can't prove a negative, so NASA can never prove that it doesn't have the information McKinnon claims he saw on their systems. On the other hand Washington presumably can't prove McKinnon didn't find such information.

Can't we just have a TV vote like on American Idol?

3:45 pm on Jun 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The burden of prove always rests with the accuser - in this case it is up to McKinnon to prove his ridiculous claims, so far he has not provided anything, and it is up to Washington administration (who were elected to do this job) to prove that McKinnon is guilty in the crimes that he is accused of - it appears that such prove exists, so it is really the matter of bringing both parties in court - something McKinnon does not want to happen.
5:20 pm on Jun 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I think it is time those who believe hacking into Govt agencies cos they think it will lead to a lurcative job offer are over (he showed us the leak we must employ him - duh).

I am just disappointed men in black did not raid his home (could he sue).

What is weird is people here seem to be defending him.

Or are there alterior motives to promoting this story.

12:34 pm on Jun 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



There are no ulterior motives on my part. I was not so much defending him as pointing out that I have not heard of anyone being held responsible for this (by all accounts rather elementary) security breach. Why was it allowed to happen? Heads should roll!

Can we agree that when we start attacking each other's logic substantive discussion is over?

A resounding yes to that. ;)

[edited by: BeeDeeDubbleU at 12:34 pm (utc) on June 29, 2008]

1:42 pm on Jun 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Why was it allowed to happen?

The main reason why it happened is not the insecurity of defences at NASA, but the illusion of being able to do these things without being caught and punished for actions - this is precisely why he should be extradited to serve a long prison sentence, as a warning to others that doing such things on the Net does not go unpunished.

The fact that server were not very well protected is not very relevant to this important thing - in Europe for example a lot of houses have glass and wooden doors, very easy to break in, so should we blame homeowners for not installing iron doors to prevent break ins or maybe the criminals who do such things?

5:23 pm on Jun 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator lawman is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Just a reminder that the Foo Charter doesn't allow politics.
7:33 pm on Jun 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Seems my post was too much of a political potato to handle.

All I can say is that the Network Administrator for what he / she is worth has failed in their job to monumental proportions.

I know the job isn't easy as you find your being hacked on a daily basis and I know from personal experience of doing this job that you need to be on top of it for the latest tricks.

As the saying goes, they were "asleep at the switch."

You have to ask yourself why NASA and the US Government does not want to provide evidence of the file tampering or planting of files and what files that were compromised. I know it would mean that they have to then show / give access all areas to all the files that they say have been interfered with.

Why the objection, is the data too sensitive, would it uphold the claims of McKinnon? You have to ask yourself why they want to silence him.

All systems have an audit trail that shows who was in the system, so why not publish these facts to the relevant authorities or will it just show how open and insecure the NASA / Government systems really are...

3:56 pm on Jul 30, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Well, we are now going to find out what will happen. He is to be extradited.

[scmagazineuk.com...]

4:07 pm on Jul 30, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I'm happy to see people who believe in alien conspiracy theories go to prison - hopefully magic ghost worshipers are next.
4:11 pm on Jul 30, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member encyclo is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



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