Joomla scam

[alfawolf7]

I want to mention that people are using the term CMS as if it were rocket science and by so doing they are getting supper paid site contracts for open source products that contain, indeed, pre-designed CMS. What do to stop the Joomla scam?

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

What scam?

[jecasc]

Do you mean there are people out there charging for installing CMS systems like Joomla and for implementing designs? Thats outrageous. If I as a company want a new CMS with a new template the least I can expect is that someone from the Open Source community steps up and installs it for free.

I mean the people who write Open Source CMS do it for free, so the companies offering installations and templates should do that for free also.

[edited by: jecasc at 7:03 am (utc) on May 17, 2007]

[Marcia]

If I as a company want a new CMS with a new template the least I can expect is that someone from the Open Source community steps up and installs it for free.

Why? What do they owe you and why in the world should they? Do you as a company give away your services or products without charge, or work for free?

People who design open source software voluntarily choose to make it publicly available for download, free. That doesn't mean they're also obligated to provide free custom services in addition, to whoever wants it.

If companies are charging for open source software, they're cheating the system, but they're entitled to get paid for their services for installing it and designing custom templates, skins (or whatever) and making modifications to the software. Those don't come along with the software itself.

[edited by: Marcia at 6:57 am (utc) on May 17, 2007]

[jecasc]

Why? What do they owe you and why in the world should they? Do you as a company give away your services or products without charge, or work for free?

Hello Marcia. I think you forgot to switch on your irony detector when you stood up this morning. ;)

[vik_c]

Agree with Marcia.

[alfawolf7]

Open Source is not the salvation of the web. People assume that somehow it comes hand in hand with roses. Wrong. The reason most of us pay to use products from Microsoft, Adobe, etc is that they are NOT "Joomla's " with CMS that costs money to those that do not know it is free!

[Lexur]

If I as a company want a new CMS with a new template the least I can expect is that someone from the Open Source community steps up and installs it for free.

Probably he just would to say ...the last I can expect...

[Marcia]

I think you forgot to switch on your irony detector when you stood up this morning.

jecasc, you're 100% right! Now that I've been corrected and caught on - apologies, that's very well put, and makes a really good point.

NOT "Joomla's " with CMS that costs money to those that do not know it is free!

It's only free for the individual to use off the shelf. But to install the right way and make it look right - and custom - that doesn't come along with it, and charging for those services is more than fair.

It isn't easy - I know, I tried for a whole summer a couple years ago to get Mambo done up right and couldn't. I called it "The Summer of the CMS Moronathon."

[edited by: Marcia at 7:55 am (utc) on May 17, 2007]

[vik_c]

While installation and custom services aren't free, I find most people who frequent forums of open source CMS are very friendly and helpful. Besides usually anything you come up against has likely troubled someone else before if the software has been around long enough and there's some thread in their forum that would help you.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Alfawolf7 this does not only apply to CMS. It applies to ecommerce and lots of other types of websites.

We design OSCommerce sites for clients. Do you honestly think we should do this for nothing? To get a commercial ecommerce software solution that does what OSCommerce (or Joomla) does the client would have to pay £500 to £1000. Do you think they would prefer to do this?

Also, as Vik_c says, the support on Open Source forums is often much better than that of commercial offerings. Have you ever tried to get free and quick support for Dreamweaver, Norton or Microsoft products?

[Marcia]

100% agreed with BDW's concepts. For a "bespoke" solution from the ground up, you can figure on a minimum of $10K USD, and that's for starters.

[rocknbil]

I am gathering it is **possible** the original poster is complaining that companies may be re-branding open source software as their own.

However, something I've been pondering lately: doesn't it seem to some of you that the hack-ability of software lies mostly in the fact that it can be downloaded and examined? If I can examine a script, I can see how it's done, reveal vulnerabilities, then apply those to any site using this software. None of the programming I've written has ever been hacked or abused, they've tried but don't seem to be able to do it. So isn't "closed source" an effective security measure in itself?

(Sorry for going O.T.)

[vik_c]

Rocknbil, the fact that Linux is considered far more secure than Windows, itself speaks volumes. Every other day I have MS wanting to update my PC.

[willybfriendly]

So isn't "closed source" an effective security measure in itself?

Security through obscurity is very little security at all. It will stop the bot driven auto-hacks - perhaps.

If someone wants in bad enough they will take the time to find a way. The Open Source community is probably more on top of it, more flexible, and faster to respond than any individual can be.

[rocknbil]

Perhaps my question was too broad. Microsoft and Linux are bad examples because both of them involve many hands and in the case of MS none of those hands are aware of what the others are doing. I was referencing web applications, such as the ever-hammered mailer scripts, carts, and the like.

Sorry for derailing the thread, re-posted on it's own here [webmasterworld.com].