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Anyway, my neighbor's cat went home nutless and not one person in my neighborhood has complained in over a year, including the owners. Just thought I'd post an update.
It's rather like you stocking the cupboards with groceries.
Hehehe, but I'm not out stalking the neighborhood for those groceries. :)
I say just keep the cats inside where they belong and be done with it. Or, start enforcing leash laws. Imagine that? A cat on a leash?
How do you propose to control rats and mice if no cats anywhere are allowed to run free?
Cats are introduced by humans and live in urban sprawl developed by humans, the same urban sprawl that decimates habitat for thousands of species of wild plants, animals, and insects. But you want to blame the stupid cats for the problems you are actively contributing to.
Did cats kill of the Dodo bird, introduce cane toads to Australia or introduce the Brown snake to Guam? Are cats pumping millions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere each year? I could also go on and on compiling references for hours on this subject.
Dogs on the other hand are a pack animal and become totally subservient to their human master, which fills the role of the alpha pack leader.
Perhaps you could tell us how many human deaths are caused by feline attacks each year and likewise by the "subservient" dogs.
None of your ramblings about cats has anything to do with the matter of secretly (in my opinion, cowardly) taking another persons pet and surgically altering it to suit your or somebody else's twisted purposes.
KenB, you are to be commended too! I take it this is a passionate subject for you?I'm not excessively passionate about it. I'm fairly well educated on the subject and will correct misinformation and myths spread by cat lovers, but won't go out of my way to debate the issue and I'd have a hard time killing a cat, even while I saw it as necessary to protect native wildlife. I'd certainly vote in favor of any law that declared open season on feral cats, with the hopes that cat lover's would take their responsibilities in regards to restraining their cats more seriously.
It is becoming one for me too as I have a neighbor with two cats that are let loose to roam free. She had three, but I already trapped one of them. I'm working on the other two now.
The tragedy of the issue with cats (feral and tame) hunting wildlife is that the problem wouldn't be nearly so bad if cat "servants", I mean owners, better understood the dark side of their beloved fur balls and took more responsibility for keeping them under control.
If you're going to push the emotional buttons about cats killing poor little birdies, you must on the other hand acknowledge the service they provide by helping to keep rats and mice under control. Those rodents cause huge economic and environmental damages, including carrying diseases which can be fatal to humans.
Also this does not at all negate the fact that cats do so much damage to native birds and animals.
Maybe a better animal for controlling mice would be certain breeds of dogs (e.g. Dalmatians), which are exceedingly good mousers without having the detrimental impact of cats because they can be trained. The whole reason Dalmatians are associated with fire departments is because fire houses used to have horses to pull the fire wagons, thus they had lots of grain, which attracted mice. Dalmatians were both good at catching mice and good with horses.
My mother has been working on teaching her Chow Chow (really hairy Chinese dog) to harass the squirrels and chipmunks so that they stay away from her house and bird feeders (the Chow Chow is getting quite good at it). Only on a rare occasion does the Chow actually catch the chipmunks so she doesn't do much damage, but their presence immediately around the house is declining. Since both the squirrels and chipmunks are faster than the Chow Chow and can climb trees beyond being harassed when close to the house, they aren't seriously threatened.
A well-fed cat doesn't hunt "for fun", it would be more accurate to say they hunt "for later". A cat will hunt when it has the opportunity and come back to eat its catch later when it does need a meal. It's rather like you stocking the cupboards with groceries.Good point, the thing is a well fed cat will still keep hunting only it never gets around to eating its stored up supply of carcasses because it has better food to eat.
Cats are introduced by humans and live in urban sprawl developed by humans, the same urban sprawl that decimates habitat for thousands of species of wild plants, animals, and insects. But you want to blame the stupid cats for the problems you are actively contributing to.
Just because there are also other causes of wildlife decimation does not mean we should ignore a specific cause. Yes there are species of animals that went extinct at no fault of cats, but it has also been documented that cats were the primary cause of the extinction of many animals around the world.
Humans must take measures to reduce our impact on this planet and our ecosystems if this planet is going to be able to continue to sustain us. This means reducing carbon emissions, controlling urban sprawl and reducing our consumption of natural resources. It also means; however, we must take greater responsibility for the living organisms we introduce into our ecosystems to ensure that they do not become invasive species that threaten the health and wellbeing of native species (e.g. we must eliminate feral/free-ranging cats).
Okay I'll quote one more section:
None of your ramblings about cats has anything to do with the matter of secretly (in my opinion, cowardly) taking another persons pet and surgically altering it to suit your or somebody else's twisted purposes.
Yes cats are cute, lovable and great companions; but they are also highly efficient hunters. Cats are decimating native animal populations here in the U.S. and around the world. For the sake of our environment and the health of native ecosystems, free ranging cat populations must be brought under control and eliminated. Just as we would do to any other invasive species.
I love cats as companions, but would only consider adopting one if I had the ability to take care of it properly and ensure that it could not leave the confines of my house and/or yard. I wonder if those shock collars used to keep dogs in a yard would work with cats?
As for catching birds, I can only vouch for what I've observed in my own little ecosystem - one of the few wooded properties in the area, all varieties of wildlife, lots of assorted birds ... and currently a colony of 4 cats of which 2 are hard strays and 2 of which POSSIBLY belong to someone. I've seen the feral tomcat I mentioned before ATTEMPT to catch birds on the ground a couple of times (I've never seen any of these cats in a tree - trees around here are either too big or too small to be cat-friendly). I'm sorry, but if the cat truly is such an efficient bird-killing machine, this one's a total embarassment to his species - if he ever catches anything he's eliminating the weak and the stupid from the gene pool.
Maybe I've got the all-time bumbling slacker of the feral cat world? A housecat wannabe? I've been working on building his trust - I'd like nothing more than to give him a life where he'd be safe from cars, coyotes, diseases, injuries, toxins, extreme weather and cat-hating humans, but at this point he's still so unsocialized that its just not feasible.
interesting but then that's not what 'being a master to'/owning a cat is all about is it, that's only going to try to get that square peg to fit in with most peoples idea of a round hole
Just keep them in the house - it's a lot easier. I've had strictly indoor cats all my life, they don't even think about trying to get outside.
hmmm.. if you've lived in a flat/apartment and have got subservient cats then I'm positive sure your view is valid but as has been said before cats choose their owners. I've 'owned' four cats but have only one that I would class as a pet (he's gone now bless his socks!).
As for catching birds...
I'd like nothing more than to give him a life where he'd be safe from cars, coyotes, diseases, injuries, toxins, extreme weather and cat-hating humans, but at this point he's still so unsocialized that its just not feasible.
Sometimes, with all the will in the world, it just doesn't work like that, had one like that and is why I even know about one particular feral cat colony, after swearing to 'keep control of her' - we did what we could but in reality she didn't know we were there!
that's why I think the OP was justified - if I saw the same thing happening with someone else's cat pets I'd save them the bother of thinking about producing more while they figured out their darling pet is always going to be a wild animal by breeding!
I recently moved to the outskirts of town. I can hear coyotes baying just about every night. Its the funniest thing...there's no cats.
Bob Barker told me to do it. ;-)
What would you have done if the cat died? Thrown it in the garbage to cover up your mistake.
I still don't even know who the cat's real owners were/are, neither did any of my immediate neighbors, that's why I went ahead with my plan to, well, remove this Tom's kitten-producing-nuts.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that what you did was totally wrong if this was someone's pet. If I were you I wouldn't go around bragging about committing what might be a crime.
What would you have done if the cat died? Thrown it in the garbage to cover up your mistake.Oh get off it. It was already stated that the cat was taken to a licensed vet. The odds of the cat suffering ill effects (other than not being interested in female cats) were slim to none. If anything as has also been pointed out he probably extended the life of the cat.
A lot of people just talk the talk, either before or after the fact, but wouldn't have the kahunas to actually solve a problem, just complain about it.
Naturally, there are going to be a lot of waa waa whiners.
Kudos to you.
YOU DON'T MESS AROUND WITH THE CAT LOVERS!
Dog lovers are not near as rabid! (no pun intended)
Only later did she say it really didn't belong to anyone. Bait and switch.
And you can replace your dogs "stuff" so he wont be embarrassed when he attends his canine conventions:
[msnbc.msn.com...]
The product's Web site says Neuticles allow a pet "to retain his natural look" and "self esteem."
Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous!
I can just imagine what's next. Implants? Extensions? HPS?
No one would ever consider creating a colony for feral dogs and no one would ever tolerating a colony of feral dogs wantonly killing wildlife, why do we tolerate cats doing this? No one would ever tolerate packs of feral dogs running rampant through our forests killing hundreds of millions of wild animals, why do we tolerate feral cats doing this?
I live in New Jersey - you're quickly losing credibility with a statement like that. From New Jersey Statutes:
23:7-3. A person who, while hunting, fishing, trapping, or taking wildlife, causes or assists in causing damage or injury to real or personal property of another, including pet animals, shall be liable to a civil penalty not to exceed $2,000.00, which sum shall be paid to the Division of Fish, Game and Wildlife for deposit in the hunters' and anglers' license fund established pursuant to R.S. 23:3-11, and (1) for a first offense, suspension of all license certificates required, and all privileges, to take or possess wildlife for a period of five years, or (2) for a second offense, permanent revocation of all such license certificates and privileges. A court may also order the violator to pay restitution to the victim for any such damage or injury caused.
And for the record I don't even own a cat, because I believe we are emptying the oceans to feed pets while people around the world are starving.
[edited by: BillyS at 1:25 am (utc) on April 27, 2007]
>>In fact in some states (I think New Jersey is one of them) if a cat wanders onto your property you can even kill (i.e. shoot it) it with no legal repercussions from the cat's real "owner"I live in New Jersey - you're quickly losing credibility with a statement like that. From New Jersey Statutes:
A person who, while hunting, fishing, trapping, or taking wildlifeShooting a cat that wanders on to your property and is harassing you or damaging your property isn't hunting. Catching a cat that wanders onto your property and getting them fixed also isn't hunting, so your quote is irrelevant to what I have stated.
Furthermore, New Jersey used to explicitly exclude cats from definitions revolving around pets and property. My mother grew up in New Jersey and lost a flock of show pigeons to a neighbor's cat and couldn't take action against the cat's owner because under NJ law at the time cats weren't deemed as property because it was deemed that they could not truly be domesticated.
All my mother could do was complain to the neighbor. The neighbor did not compensate my mother for her loss, and sadly to avoid future problems the neighbor took the offending cat to the local dump and abandoned it. Since I don't live in NJ I'm not up on their current laws, this is why I said "I think New Jersey".
[edited by: KenB at 4:55 am (utc) on April 27, 2007]
Never heard of a law that would allow someone to kill my cat if it accidently got out and wandered onto their property <shudder>.
As far as not being "fully domesticated", if you have a dog that's hard-wired with a high prey drive, you will never get rid of that prey drive either. You can suppress it, but you'll never get rid of it.
It's funny how a mention of cats brings out such vehement opinions from cat lovers and cat haters alike - I can't think of any other species where discussions get so heated (maybe pit-bulls, but that's not a whole species).
Birds can be a nuisance too - I've never had to clean cat droppings off my car :)! (ducking and running for cover ...)
[edited by: MamaDawg at 12:46 pm (utc) on April 27, 2007]
Birds can be a nuisance too..
I've never had to clean cat droppings off my car.
Yes but, I've had to clean paw prints and fine scratches off of my car due to the neighbors cat finding comfort in the heat eminating from the hood. I've since addressed that issue with electronic devices around that house that emit an annoying sound that only cats can here. Paid $75.00 a piece for those and they appear to be working as intended.
I just bought a couple of sheets of velcro. The plan is to line the areas on the tree where the cat(s) go up. Since my neighbor doesn't want to abide by the community rules, its time for me to take things into my own hands.
What happens when a cat lands on Velcro? Is that like flypaper for cats? ;)
On the other hand if the same thing worked with noisy children I would be all for it.
Rgds
Damon
