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Combination of solar and wind power, with water also being pre-heated by some fancy pipework on the roof.
Anyone here doing anything like this? Aside from the green issues, it must be a nice feeling to have that independence from power companies.
TJ
It costs us apx. USD 400 for an Inverter with two batterries. More the batterries, more the power we can store. If we could get access to an efficient fuel cell, we could be off electric power for 6-12 hours a day easily.
We can run fans/Lights/PC etc easily and work goes on uninterrupted.
However, this is not by choice, but because of need.
I suspect you meant "renewable"
Yes I did.
energy co's more threatened by fuel cells
I'm not interested necessarily in the concept of "getting off the grid" - in fact, I think most people using renewable energy sources are using the grid as a storage medium. You still need it.
For example this friend of mine that I was chatting to about his system yesterday was explaining to me that sometimes (in the evenings especially) he doesn't generate enough of his own juice to power everything he needs to power. So he's using some grid power.
But during most days (especially weekdays when he's not around) he generates an excess of electricity which then goes back into the grid.
On average he puts more in than he takes out, sufficient to basically mean that the grid company pays him rather than the other way around. He has a net surplus of power.
That, to me, is kind of like using the grid electricity company as a storage depot for your power, the cost of which is the difference between the energy "buy" price and the energy "sell" price. And the difference in used vs supplied of course.
I don't have a major problem with that. It would still give a sense of independence of energy.
If these "fuel cells" require external sources of power (even if "natural") then to me that's just hassle. I don't really want to grow a corn-field, I'd rather just have something that sucks up the sun or pulls power out of the wind.
I note what you say about the environmental downside, but that to me seems far less of a problem than the environmental downside of nuclear or carbon emmitting energy generation?
As for the birds/bats issue, I would have thought there are ways to ensure they don't stray too close to the windwill? Could you perhaps put a cage around it (like you get on those big office fans)?
MHes : Your place in Scotland sounds absolutely fantastic!
One question though - where does the net connection come from, or is part of the idea to get away from that?
;)
TJ
I'm just being practical (maybe too much). The world production of solar panels is around 400 MW per year. That's enough for around 100,000 homes.
The energy is also very expensive. Right now, it's around $0.30 per kwh. Plus, even with solar, you still need "backip" power from the grid. This means your total bill for energy will be around $0.35. Which is 3 - 4x the national average cost of energy.
Without the subsidies, most individuals would not pay that kind of money.
that kind of money
I'm not too interested in the money - it's more than that - I suppose you could look at it as a lifestyle thing.
Value comes from many different things.
TJ
You're the exception. And so was I at one time. I used to buy "clean power" until that partcular company closed shop. That power was around 30% more than the standard rate. That company closed up because their marketing expenses could not cover their margin.
Most people consider energy a commodiy and buy on price. Look at ConEd - they only deliver energy. People complain that they paid too much and look at the problems ConEd has - guess what? The ratepayers don't pay ENOUGH money to support the reliability they actually want.
When asked, most customers are not willing to pay more for clean energy OR greater reliability.
Personal strategies can range from making more use of your bicycle to how meals are planned in the kitchen. It all helps.
We have a huge legacy stock of buildings that were not designed with energy efficiency in mind, and that's a big problem. Even so, there's a lot that can be done with retrofitting existing buildings to be more efficient, with positive results for both cost savings and improved comfort.
Our new house has 3 very well-placed skylights. So despite being twice the size of our apartment, our electricity bills have been about 1/2 of what they were there.
Our local electricity company just did another major rate increase for usage over baseline amounts. With the heat wave last month, a lot of people saw their recent electric bill triple over the previous month! Still waiting for our bill...
I completely agree. As a matter of fact, I was asked to attend a brain storming session where we discussed the long term implications of high energy prices:
- Changes in thermostat habits (keeping homes warmer in summer, cooler in winter)
- More energy efficient appliances
- Increased insulation in home
My thoughts: When energy prices are higher, the payback on more efficient equipment is faster. Consumers would demand more of these products and manufacturers would supply them (Economics 101...)
"Scientists have invented a plastic solar cell that can turn the sun's power into electrical energy, even on a cloudy day. The plastic material uses nanotechnology and contains the first solar cells able to harness the sun's invisible, infrared rays.....Like paint, the composite can be sprayed onto other materials and used as portable electricity...
The sun's energy that reaches the Earth's surface delivers 10,000 times more energy than we consume...If we could cover 0.1 percent of the Earth's surface with [very efficient] large-area solar cells," he said, "we could in principle replace all of our energy habits with a source of power which is clean and renewable.
...With further advances, the new plastic could allow up to 30 percent of the sun's radiant energy to be harnessed, compared to 6 percent in today's best plastic solar cells."
Here come those sweat shops from Matrix.
[edited by: Tourz at 8:40 pm (utc) on Aug. 9, 2006]
One thing I know (having recently worked on a website all about renewable energy) is that the most effective energy saver is not photovoltaic, it's solar thermal. Basically you get the sun to heat up your water, using compressed glycol, like a big refrigerator running in reverse. You will save more energy than you would ever be able to generate using PVs, and at current prices the "payback" time is only a few years, not decades. For any energy enthusiast, Solar Thermal is the most logical first project.
One problem here in Ontario is that energy is just way TOO CHEAP. Even though every summer we get warnings about record-breaking suckage on the grid and brownouts and pleas for conservation, our energy prices are so heavily subsidized that we don't really feel the expense of our wasteful lives. If we were actually paying what the energy is worth, no houses would be built without some kind of energy solution strapped to the roof.
I admire those early adopters who invested heavily to achieve urban energy self-sufficiency. Their example will make it easier for the rest of us to catch up.
In a 21st century twist on Microsoft's original "PC in every home" vision, a young company has created a home energy-storage appliance that connects to the power grid--and the Internet.Called GridPoint, the 3-year-old company has developed "intelligent energy management" systems, which it claims can help people lower their electricity bills.
It makes two products: a storage appliance that works in conjunction with a renewable power source, such as solar electric panels, and a back-up power supply unit. Both refrigerator-size boxes are equipped with Net-connected PCs that collect and analyze data on power usage.
Pumping power onto the grid from your basement [news.com.com]
I don't know why I feel i've been waiting for this.
Net-connected PCs that collect and analyze data on power usage.
I hope that's secure. What a brilliant way to get a list of addresses where current power usage indicates the owners are on holiday?
Interesting looking kit though... will look into that further.
...the most effective energy saver is not photovoltaic, it's solar thermal. Basically you get the sun to heat up your water, using compressed glycol, like a big refrigerator running in reverse
I heard the same thing from the chap I was speaking to about this the other day. He's using it. Although he did say that it only "pre-heats" the water - i.e. it doesn't really get it piping hot, but certainly warm. It basically means he uses less energy to then get it up to piping hot. That may be a UK thing (lack of sunshine).
What is geothermal energy?
Geothermal energy is defined as heat from the Earth. It is a clean, renewable resource that provides energy in the United States and around the world. It is considered a renewable resource because the heat emanating from the interior of the Earth is essentially limitless. The heat continuously flowing from the Earth’s interior is estimated to be equivalent to 42 million megawatts of power.(1) The interior of the Earth is expected to remain extremely hot for billions of year to come, ensuring an inexhaustible flow of heat.
Very interesting topic! Thank you!
[edited by: Birdman at 2:45 pm (utc) on Aug. 10, 2006]
It is worth doing. Not sure of the science but the earth heats the water pipes and then that heats your house.
I looked at islands off the coast of scotland once as well. Not quite got that money yet though!
Sounds like what is called a geothermal heat pump. Did you ever go into a cave where the temperature is 55F all year round? Based on the exchange of energy using this 55 degrees as the starting point. Very efficient equipment that requires an array of piping below the frost line.
I have a friend in Malta where the temp is 40C+ this time of year and chilly (<10C) in the winter.
He has just bought and fixed up a nice old "house of character" that has an old big well. He was already going to use well water for flushing the toilets etc (not good enough for drinking) since water is an expensive and scare commodity in Malta, but I also suggested to him that he pump heat into the well in summer and out of it in winter to save huge heating/cooling bills, and that's what he's doing. A big deep well holds a lot of heat energy!
Rgds
Damon
pump heat into the well in summer and out of it in winter to save huge heating/cooling bills, and that's what he's doing. A big deep well holds a lot of heat energy!
Yes, that's one form of geoexchange. I'm guessing your friend is using a heat pump(basically an AC that can work in reverse too), right?
Since joining this thread, I've read quite a bit on the geothermal(geoexchange) systems and they look very promising!
Check out geoexchange.org as well as the link in my earlier post for some good reading.
Many states in the US will give grants to individuals/companies who install the systems.
[edited by: Birdman at 9:44 pm (utc) on Aug. 10, 2006]
Yes basically like an aircon that can push heat in or out of the house, but the "outside" part of the aircon is in the well water.
Having said that I don't know if the bit in the house actually directly heats/cools the air, or regulates temperatir via some more indirect method such as underfloor pipes or water-filled radiators or whatever. I'm going to study it in detail when I next visit!
On my next house move I want to get a place where I can basically do something similar plus solar heating and PV plus wind generators. That way my office-based (Web) servers will not hasten the end of the world quite so fast as now...
And I love the idea of selling excess electricity back to the power grid, and how much more robust that should make ourselves and community in the face of downed cables, freak heatwaves, terrorist attacks on infrastructure, etc, etc.
Rgds
Damon
[edited by: DamonHD at 10:19 pm (utc) on Aug. 10, 2006]
We pump and purify our own well water, we handle our own sewage. Very little energy is required for clean water maintenance....and that is a start that most should consider!
We live in Florida.......so you would immediately think that Solar is the obvious choice for electricity generation......but, it simply isn't practical at this time!
I use about 4200 KWH of electricity per month, there is no way solar can generate that amount. Even if I set aside an acre to be covered with solar panels it wouldn't work!
In addition solar is fragile, a hurricane will tear it to bits! I have doubts solar is even practical in Nevada or Arizona, it certainly isn't a serious option in Florida.
For me "energy self sufficient" means you can get cut off the grid and survive. To do that you need a diesel generator, they are not cheap to buy or run, but for the few days per year when the problem occurs they are a life-saver!
rj87uk - Tornal island. It is off Seil island in the middle of Balvicar bay.
Trillianjedi - I have a vodaphone card but it is pretty useless.... which is a big bonus in a way!
I'm just fitting some Navitron evacuated tube water heaters. The system is gravity fed which makes it very reliable but difficult to configure. My problem is the angle of the tubes which needs to have the top of the tubes below the hot water cylinder. If goes live next week and it will be interesting to see how well it performs in Scotland. We have long daylight hours in summer, so probably plenty of hot water, but in winter the days are short and the sun low, so I think a back boiler on the solid fuel stove will need to be used as a top up.
The interesting thing about this project is that I'm having to use alternative energy sources because I have no other option. However, the process has made me realise that these new systems are no longer expensive and I've woken up to the environmental advantages plus the huge amount of fun in building them. If you want a great hobby, go 'environmentally friendly'. You end up touching base with fascinating science mixed with the challenge of making it all work in your situation. The result is huge satisfaction and cold showers but a smug grin perminately on your face :)
In the US there are heavy federal and local subsidies (rebates) that apply. Our company alone collects over $200 million each year from ratepayers to provide rebates and promote energy efficient equipment that are used by very few.
Anyone that thinks energy efficient equipment for their home is no longer expensive is not seeing the entire picture.
We don't have that in the UK (as far as I know), but still the cost of the technology is dropping at a pretty rapid rate.
In the US there are heavy federal and local subsidies (rebates) that apply.
All the more reason to do it. Otherwise that funding and subsidy has been completely wasted. People taking advantage of it create the market. Then market forces, supply and demand, drive the technology prices downward, even when the subsidies no longer apply.
There is no question that the cost of the equipment is dropping.
TJ
[edited by: trillianjedi at 11:59 am (utc) on Aug. 11, 2006]
The trap is in waiting for 'something great to come along and solve all the problems'. This is not going to happen, we have to embrace what eco technologies are available today, at any cost. My point being that wind turbines, solar panels etc. are affordable to most first world citizens and they make financial sense. Add to this the eco friendly gains and the whole decision should be a no brainer.
-first we got rid of the second car
-replaced each dead appliance with the more energy effcient ones
-replaced all the old windows
-upgraded all the home insulation
-planted trees around the house to shade it in the summer
-changed the paint color of the house and shingles to take advantage of solar gain
-replaced the light bulbs with florecents
-audited energy usage
-built a composter
etc.etc.etc.........
I also walk to the train station, which is about 3/4 of a mile (1 km) from my home. From there I take mass transit (also heavily subsidized) and walk to my office.
I also completely agree with the comments about taking advantage of the rebates.
You must have a very, very, small yard, my composter is only 2 feet square ;~)
Also - I was looking at those big barrel type composters that flip and everything, maybe I should look around some.
