Forum Moderators: open
Poland - Polska
Fact sheet [odci.gov]
Domain(s): pl, .com.pl
Online population: 2,8 million (7,3%) (July 2000)
Native language(s): Polish
Understanding of English: ?
Hosts in domain: 260.000 (Jul 2000)
Pages in language: 2,7 million (2,5 in pl-domain) (Sep 2000, all domains)
Pages in domain: 3,7 million (2,5 in Polish language) (Sep 2000, all languages)
Local presence required for domain registration: Local contact address needed
Multiple domains allowed: Yes
Professional help: See bottom of page
Known general search engines:
Ahoj [ahoj.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #10 Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Using Google's main index. Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Portal.
Altavista.com is #5 in Poland. (Most visited site for 3% in dec 2000)
Arena [szukaj.arena.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #6 in Poland. (Most visited site for 2% in dec 2000) Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: Yes (Others on request, but must be in Polish) Search technology: Infoseek Meta description used in search replies: Yes, default. (Can be changed)
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Things that worked in Altavista 3 years ago observed to work well in Arena.
Gazeta [gazeta.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #6 in Poland. (Most visited site for 2% in december 2000) Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Altavista Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?
Interia [szukaj.interia.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #4 in Poland. (Most visited site for 3% in december 2000) Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: Yes Search technology: Altavista Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: New fast server
Netoskop [poland.com]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #9 in Poland. (Most visited site for 1% in december 2000) Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: Yes (Exceptions listed here [netoskop.poland.com])
Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: No Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes (short names observed to rank higher) Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: Yes, whole header family. Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Keyword density, placement and proximity important. Keyword in links count. Netoskop only engine to support Polish character set (ISO8859-2) Index of 5 million pages appr.=100%
onet.pl [onet.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #1 in Poland. (Most visited site for 32%, 224 mill page views in dec 2000) Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: Yes No. of categories allowed per site: editor discretion Search method: Polish pages (default)(powered by Infoseek), Directory, World search (powered by Altavista with option for Google.)
Things that help ranking: Local language: Yes Local domain: .pl only Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes
Other: Database size: 7 million pages in database, 250.000 listings in volunteer powered directory.
RMF FM [rmf.fm]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #8 in Poland. (Most visited site for 1% in dec 2000)[color=#CE0000] ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: [color=#CE0000]Altavista Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Portal.
Known general directories:
Czas Na Links [cnl.tonet.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: 4000 unique visitors per month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?
Hoga [www.hoga.pl]
Language interface: English, Polish Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?
PolishWorld [polishworld.com]
Language interface: English, Polish Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?
Wirtualna Polska [wp.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: #2 in Poland. (Most visited site for 319% in december 2000) Local language(s) required: In directory only Local domain(s) only: No No. of categories allowed per site: 5 Search method: 1. Directory search, 2. Web via Fast index, 3. World via Inktomi. Also: ftp, mp3, shopping and .pl newsgroup searching.
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: ?
WOW! [wow.pl]
Language interface: Polish Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? No. of categories allowed per site: ? Search method: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Other: Features about 20.000 links.
Yahoo.com is the #3 site in Poland (Most visited site for 3% in dec 2000)
Local people who can help with translations and advise:
This area will be updated with e-mail and/or web addresses to translators and SEO specialists, who have posted a reply in this discussion. Please state your name, web and/or e-mail address, languages to/from and what you can help out with. Prices and promotional stuff will be edited out.
The easy way to post a reply: Copy from above, click button, paste and change.
Updated Jan 24, 2001
Edited by: rencke
Edited by: rencke
Most polpular portals
December 2000
1. Onet [onet.pl] (Infoseek,Altavista)
2. Wirtualna Polska [wp.pl] (FAST)
3. Yahoo
4. Interia [interia.pl] (Altavista)
5. Altavista
6. Gazeta [gazeta.pl] (Altavista)
7. Arena [arena.pl] (Infoseek)
8. RMF FM [rmf.fm] (Altavista)
9. Panorama Firm [pf.pl]
10.Ahoj [ahoj.pl] (Google)
Notes:
Gazeta (new portal): previously, on-line version of the biggest newspaper
RMF FM: radio station web site. RMF holds 50% of Interia (that's why they look similar)
Panorama Firm: on-line version of the most popular printed business directory (sth like Yellow Pages)
Others pl: portals
The most important thing is that Onet and WP are leading and the distance to others is very long. It doesn't matter who is 3rd,4th or 5th because the difrence is very small and it depends on who is making the researches.
If anyone needs details: [infoprasowe.onet.pl]
listopad=November; grudzen=December
1st chart - used most
2nd chart - used last week
3rd chart - used last month
4th chart - used whenever
5th chart - free e-mail accounts >>
>> green=all users; blue=free e-mail acounts users
Onet (December 2000)
page views: 27 mln first page and 224 mln all pages
registered users: 1.2 mln
free accounts: 1.1 mln
A couple of questions before I update the main chart above:
- What is the difference between chart 1 - "used most" and chart 4 "used whenever".
- If Onet had 224 million page views in December, doeas that correspond to 3,2% in chart 1, and would it be correct to say that Wirtualna Polska then had had 224 million/3.2%*1.9%=133 million? I.e. the figure shown in Chart 1 the share or all page views in the country (224 mill/3,2%=7 billion).
I am sure the answer is in the text somewhere, but alas, I can't read it.
Also: The charts show 15 top sites and I guess that several of these are portals. How many of them have a search engine onboard?
It is extremely interesting to see, that big international SE:s such as Yahoo and Altavista don't make it to the top. They are not even half the size of the two leading local engines according to chart #1.
>What is the difference between chart 1 - "used most" and chart 4 "used whenever"
The questions were:
Chart 1. What web site do you visit most often ?
Chart 4. What web site did you whenever visited ? (min. once)
<If Onet had 224 million page views in December, does that correspond to 3,2% ...
The charts (graphics) are poor quality Jan, it's 32%
Onet - chart1) 32% chart2) 37% chart3) 55% chart4) 69%
It doesnt correspond to page views (tracking) because these 32% is taken from the research made with traditional methods (questionary, interview)
I've seen Onet on the SMG/KRC clients list. I'm not sure, but I think tracking was made only for Onet and interview for all. I'm waiting for the discussion on that (BiznesNet, Internet Standard, ViAngel etc) maybe I will find sth.
<The charts show 15 top sites and I guess that several of these are portals. How many of them have a search engine onboard?
Top 10 are all portals except Panorama Firm
"Portal" was a buzzword in the year 2000. Almost every big player started to build own portal. Believe me Jan, it's a madness what are they doing here.
11. Komputer Swiat [komputerswiat.pl] It's an on-line version of magazine for PC's users (PCWorld) No SE on board. I'm really suprised to see this web site in ranking.
12. MP3.com.pl [mp3.com.pl] ... I've never been there ...
13. Radio Zet [radiozet.pl] Radio station from Warsaw competing with RMF FM (from Cracow) No SE and directory on board, just a news provider by now.
14. CHIP [chip.pl] On-line version of the most popular PC related magazine from Vogel. Netoskop SE onboard. Cooperates with Poland.com
15. Rzeczpospolita [rzeczpospolita.pl] (it means in latin res publica and republic in English) This is the on-line version of ... let's say... the 2nd biggest newspaper in Poland. No SE onboard. Suprised again to see them in ranking, one interesting thing here is no-paid access to the press archive (Gazeta's archive is paid).
Others portals in Poland not mentioned in the top15 chart:
(here in Poland we are still watching the fight for the market)
Poland.com [poland.com] - ISP Elektrim/portal (Elektrim is one of the biggest companies in Poland). Netoskop SE /Polish engine
Hoga [hoga.pl] NetSprint SE [xorinternet.com.pl] /Polish engine
YoYo [yoyo.pl] (they spent a lot of money but I think they are the subject of jokes more then a serious player - I listed them because big companies are staying behind it and they mentioned sth about IPO). No SE
Internetia [internetia.pl] - ISP Netia/portal. No SE
Portal [portal.pl] Altavista ISP TPSA(telecom monopoly)/portal The richest player on the market but for now Portal is only winning "disapointment of the year" awards.
I think, today Hoga and Poland.com are the most interesting from this 5
uff... to give you the complete landscape of Poland...
Prokom from Gdansk (holds Wirtualna Polska) and ComArch from Cracow (holds 50% of Interia) are the biggest software companies. Onet was founded by Optimus (the biggest PC manufacturer) but recently sold to ITI Holding (media giant from Cracow). They are really serious players even comparing to other europeans. Just look at the Warsaw Stock Exchange :)
Don't treat this top15 ranking very seriously.
Everything can change quickly and we have to wait for the real research of the market.
SMG/KRC researches and previously OBOP researches were made profesionally but on small quanity (traditional methods: SMG 700 users and OBOP 2000 users).
Note that Onet and Interia+RMF FM are from Cracow (Krakow) and Wirtualna Polska is based in Gdansk (at the sea side). What does it mean ? It means that Warsaw (capital and base of major business) has to make a response. Every Pole could be talking for hours about Warsaw vs Cracow competition. It's a part of our history... but as I think not a topic of this forum ;)
... outstanding forum! and you Jan do the great job with this European part (respect). It's a big knowledge mine for someone like me. Thank you!
I know this post is too long and borring but maybe it will help someone. It's nothing comparing to the knowledge I'm gaining from this forum.
P.S I have invited a friend to the forum. He will try to help you update needs and things that help ranks in Onet, WP, Interia and Arena.
>research made with traditional methods (interview)
OK. I get it. This introduces a bias called telescope effect, caused by people not remembering too clearly exactly what they did in the past - even if that past is only a month away. So the figures can only be used for the purpose of ranking the relative size of the audience and to get some idea of their reach.
Still, that is very useful and reinforces the picture of the absolutely dominant positions held by Onet and Wirtualna Polska in Poland. Onet is in fact about 10 times bigger than Yahoo or Altavista and WP about 6 times bigger.
So, concentrating on search engines, directories and portals with search engines onboard, we are looking at this top list, with the percentage figures giving a rough idea of their relative importance in Poland:
1. Onet (Infoseek, Altavista) 32%
2. Wirtualna Polska (Fast) 19%
3. Yahoo.com 3%
4. Interia.pl (Altavista) 3%
5. Altavista.com 3%
6. Gazeta (Altavista) 2%
7. Arena.pl (Infoseek)2%
8. RMF FM (Altavista)
9. Netoskop at chip.pl 1%
10 Ahoj (Google) 1%
One further question here is if the sites using Altavista are using their main index or if they have licensed the technology and spidered their own. We know Onet does the latter and Interia too it seems, but what about Gazeta and RMF FM?
One important strategic conclusion can be drawn from this and that is that no Internet marketing strategy involving Poland can possibly succeed without Onet and Wirtualna Polska.
The main post for Poland has been updated with your excellent info, Marcin Thank you. Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Onet and Arena (Polish Infoseek)
Things that help ranking:
Keyword in th title
KW in the description
KW in URL (in the domain name and in the filename)
KW in ALTs
KW in body text
In Onet, it is very important to submit the site to their directory.
With this simple things I achived 96%-99% for my sites.
I think link popularity can raise your site to 100% (I'm not sure with this by now but with one site I have 2 popular competitors with 100%).
If you have the competition with the same score, your position depends on the submition's date (recent is higher). With my keywords I could easly reach the top with my sites so it seems that ranking in Onet and Aren is VERY EASY TODAY. A very few webmasters pay their attention to the SEs. I found that spammers repeating keywords (META) are reaching top and they are not punished but using all above things you can beat them playing fair. Web sites are indexed after 24-48h (don't forget about Onet's directory).
Polish Infoseek works well with Polish language so you don't have to use only keyword nouns i.e in the body text.
Wirtualna Polska
I was wrong. WP uses FAST to search its directory. Polish web search is optional.
There is no world searches in WP right now.
You can use the options for searches in main SEs at the bottom of the results page
Pages indexed (SE)
Sorry but I found only the numbers from February 2000
Onet 7mln
Arena 7mln
WP 6mln
Interia 4mln
Netoskop 5,5mln
Ahoj - Google main index
NetSprint in Hoga 4mln
to be continued.
Edited by: Marcin
Edited by: Marcin
KW in the title,
KW at the top of the page,
KW in the body text, alts, url,
link popularity
META less important
Unfortunatelly, it seems I don't know what makes the difference between Interia and Portal Polish search. Any clues Jan ?
Interia (and RMF)
Searches: Polish web (default) "wyszukiwarka polska"
and optitons for:
world search "zagraniczna" (Altavista main index),
news search,
Interia directory search "katalog polski"
and AV directory search "zagraniczny"
Portal
Searches: Polish web (default) "w Polsce"
and optitons for:
world search "w swiecie" (Altavista main index),
portal search,
Ahoj
powered by Google
Things that... Local language: No
Searches: Polish web (default) and options for portal search, World search and usenet search. Default search lists pages in English. You have to check the box at the top to switch for "Polish only pages (beta)".
I was invited here something about 10 day ago, but I didn't have time. Now I have :) and going to share with you my knowledge.
Ahoj
Sites indexed 1 326 000 000 (Yes, they are claiming to have it all, but in fact it is Google database)
Meta Robots no support
Link Popularity the main boosting feature
Stop Words yes
Things that help ranking
Keywords in ALT (images) no
Keyword in URL: very important
Keyword in title: yes
Keyword in meta description: no
Keyword in meta keywords: no
Keyword in H1: yes
Things see as spam
META keywords duplication no
Invisible text no
Tiny text no
Fast Meta Refresh no
They have no spam detectors because they use link popularity as a main boost.
Arena
Sites indexed 7 000 000
Meta Robots yes
Link Popularity yes but it isnt very important
Stop Words no
Steaming Words - yes
Things that help ranking
Keywords in ALT (images) yes
Invidual keywords close to each other - yes
Keyword in URL: yes
Keyword in title: yes in fact all Polish SE see it as very important feature.
Keyword in meta description: yes
Keyword in meta keywords: yes
Keyword in H1: no
Human viewed pages (those from directories) very important
Things see as spam
META keywords duplication very important
Invisible text yes
Fast Meta Refresh yes
All that is the same in Onet.pl case so I wont copy it. But it would be good to add comment to META Keywords Duplication it is see as spam but Onet is very lazy in punishing for it
Interia
Sites indexed 4 000 000 (80 000 in directory)
Im not sure how they index pages. I didnt find any AddUrl place. There is only possibility to add page to directory. I think this is index is powered by AltaVista.
Meta Robots yes
Link Popularity no
Stop Words yes
Things that help ranking
Keywords in ALT (images) yes
Keywords close to the top of the page - yes
Keyword in URL: no
Keyword in title: yes
Keyword in meta description: yes
Keyword in meta keywords: yes
Keyword in H1: no
Human viewed pages (those from directories) according to altavista features it isnt important, but Im sure that in Interia.pl case it is main feature.
Things see as spam
META keywords duplication very important
Invisible text yes
Tiny Text - yes
Fast Meta Refresh no
Portal.pl has similar features.
Hoga
Sites added 5 000
Wirtualna Polska
Site indexed 250 000 (directory) 6 mln (powered by Fast)
Link Popularity yes
Stop Words no
Things that help ranking
Keywords in ALT (images) yes
Keyword in URL: yes
Keyword in title: yes
Keyword in meta description: no*
Keyword in meta keywords: no*
*Of course description and keywords that were put in AddToDirectory form are very important. So you can write: directory description yes / directory keywords - yes
Keyword in H1: no
Human viewed pages (those from directories) according to FAST features it isnt important, but it is obvious that this is main feature.
Things see as spam
META keywords duplication yes
Invisible text no
Tiny Text - no
Fast Meta Refresh no
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Thank you for providing us with information about Polish search engines, which puts this discussion ahead of all others, except for Germany and Denmark, when it comes to in depth knowledge about the leading engines. I will update the main chart with your info as soon as possible.
