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Germany - Deutschland: SEARCH ENGINES #3 [locked and continued]

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rencke

3:54 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Continued from here [webmasterworld.com]

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Germany - Deutschland. Search engines.
German directories are found here [webmasterworld.com].
Fact sheet [odci.gov]
Domain(s): de
Online population: 15,9 million (July 2000)
Native language(s): German
Understanding of English: Very high
Hosts in domain: 1,9 million (Jul 2000)
Pages in language: 9,9 million (Sep 2000, all domains)
Pages in domain: 9,6 million (Sep 2000, all languages)
Local presence required for domain registration: Yes
Multiple domains allowed: Yes
Professional help: See bottom of page

Known general search engines:

Abacho [abacho.com]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: No, only title
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Some Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: Yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Keyword density is important. Update reported to be very fast.

Abadoor [abadoor.com]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: Onle one page per domain, will not spider others. Similar to directory. Other: Max url length: 42 characters. Maximum 12 pages per domain.

Acoon [acoon.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: NO Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: Yes
Things that help ranking: Local language: yes Local domain: No Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: No Other: Keyword density is the most important factor. Flooding and repetition observed to be accepted.

Altavista Deutschland [de.altavista.com]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: AltaVista
Meta description used in search replies: YesThings that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: Yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: Link popularity. Theme based indexing. Date: Older better.

AOL [aol.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 3,9 mill page views/month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ?
Meta description used in search replies: ?Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Belissima - see Abacho

Columbus finder discontinued.

Crawler.de [crawler.de] see Abacho

Excite [excite.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 15 mill page views/month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Fireball [fireball.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 10,8 mill pageviews/month (research)/30 mill (own figures) Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Altavista
Meta description used in search replies: Yes Things that help ranking: Local language: Mandatory Local domain: No Keyword in URL: Yes, big. Keyword in title: Yes, boost if title=url. Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: No Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: No Other: Fireball reads additional meta tags indicating a.o. language, audience and subject. Info in help pages. Likes high keyword density and newer pages before older. Frequent submssion important. Links and link text important. Will index framed pages even if noframes tag i missing. Does not give preference to de-domain, ch and at work just as well. Submitted pages in index within 48 hours. "Spammers paradise".

Infoseek [infoseek.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: Germany's #1 search engine with 30.8 mill page views/month + traffic from T-online Local language(s) required: Yes Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: Yes, and keywords too.
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Not much Keyword in meta keywords: yes Keyword in header: yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: Also on main page of T-online, Germany's leading portal with 47,6 mill page visits/month.

Lotse - see Speedfind

Nathan [nathan.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Lycos Deutschland [lycos.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 36,6 mill page views/month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Direct Hit + Fast Meta description used in search replies: No
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: no Keyword in URL: Yes Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: No Keyword in meta keywords: No Keyword in header: Yes Keyword in 1st paragraph: Yes Other: Kwd on ALT-tags. Kwd location: High preferred. First three results from own directory, following 5-6 from DirectHit, rest from spidered index, a change to Fast is expected, but not implemented per Dec 1, 2000.

MSN [msn.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: 3,4 million page views/month Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Inktomi Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Speedfind [speedfind.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: No Local domain(s) only: No Search technology: Own Meta description used in search replies: Yes, one line description, one line keywords, several line text from page.
Things that help ranking: Local language: Yes Local domain: Yes Keyword in URL: No Keyword in title: Yes Keyword in description: Yes Keyword in meta keywords: Yes Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Tigersuche [tigersuche.de]
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ? Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: Oen spidered index supplemented by secondary results from Altavista, Fast, Fireball and Google. Meta description used in search replies: ?
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ? Keyword in URL: ? Keyword in title: ? Keyword in description: ? Keyword in meta keywords: ? Keyword in header: ? Keyword in 1st paragraph: ? Other: ?

Local people who can help with translations and advise:

Ulrich Wisser, luna-park GmBH. Traffic analyses, SEO and translations into German. u.wisser@luna-park.de

This area will be updated with e-mail and/or web addresses to translators and SEO specialists, who have posted a reply in this discussion. Please state your name, web and/or e-mail address, languages to/from and what you can help out with. Prices and promotional stuff will be edited out.

The easy way to post a reply: Copy from above, click button, paste and change.

Updated March 13, 2001

Edited by: rencke

oLeon

4:31 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



<<Searched for "Geschichten" as you suggested. It seems that the word has taken on a new meaning since my school-days. I thought a German SE would rank the de-domain higher than other, but apparantely the ch-domain is just as good (and you don't need local presence for a Swiss domain) That was news to me - useful news indeed>>
Whatīs the problem? The stories with erotic content are relevant, no doubt.
There is no different between .de or .ch or at. or.com, only the content has to be in german, thatīs what required.

<<The figure for Infoseek does not seem to include traffic from T-online. Another 47 million pageviews(?).>>
Not all traffic from T-online ends on infoseek. Only if you search on T-online, your visit appear in this statistic.

Schlitzer

5:07 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)



With reference to Heinis comment <fireball is filled to the brim with p*, no doubt about that> and the obvious lack of adult orientated sites at FBs "Live-Update" I would assume that this feature is filtered, or that they use a time schedule to add those pages.

rencke

6:03 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Re: Fireball making no difference between .de, .at and .ch domains.

This is quite unusual in Europe. Almost all national search engines rank pages in their own domain higher than other pages in the language. Since Germany requries local presence for registration in the de-domain and Switzerland does not, a ch-domain would be a really easy way for a foreign site to get their German pages into Fireball. Quite an important find. Or do you think a .com would work just as well?

Do you know if this applies to other German SE:s too, or if it is only Fireball?

As to "Geschichte". In my school-days we were given German books to read with titles like "Geschichte aus dem Schwarzwald" and "Das Leiden des jungen Werther". So I developed a rather romantic view of German literature. Either it has changed in the decades that have gone, or they didn't tell us everything in school.

Schlitzer

7:16 pm on Feb 14, 2001 (gmt 0)



rencke,
by using "all" the tricks of the trade (except cloaking) my pages on a .NET-domain with US-IP are holding Top 1 to 5 position for competetive german 2 word phrases and even single keywords at

fireball.de
google.de
altavista.de
abacho.de
acoon.de
speedfind.de
infoseek.de

If it comes to most competetive single keyword searches, I believe a .de-keyword domain helps a lot or is kind of mandatory for top results.

PS: nobody knows "all" the tricks, that`s the reason we reading this lovely forum :>

rencke

3:02 pm on Feb 15, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That's pretty impressive Dr. Schlitzer and confirms my belief that it is possible to make it to the top in Europe without IP-delivery, merely on the basis of good SEO-practises. So far at least.

Making note to self: Avoid coming down with any neurological disorder while in Munich. The local clinic has a doctor who calls himself Schlitzer.

heini

1:18 am on Feb 16, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



rencke, about Abacho:
Language interface: German Traffic volume: ? Local language(s) required: ?
Local domain(s) only: ? Search technology: ? Meta description used in search replies: no, only <title>
Things that help ranking: Local language: ? Local domain: ?
Keyword in URL: no
Keyword in title: yes
Keyword in description: donīt think so
Keyword in meta keywords: donīt think so Keyword in header: ?
Keyword in 1st paragraph: ?
Other: high keyword density seemingly does it
On their addurl page they advice you to have metatags, but in the results only title shows up and counts for ranking.
We have a person here who is very successfull with abacho: please correct me if Iīm wrong Schlitzer
BTW: new pages submitted on 13th showed up on 15th! Either good luck or they are fast.

Schlitzer

9:58 am on Feb 16, 2001 (gmt 0)



Hello Heini,
unfortunately I cannot add something substantial concerning the Abacho algo and the weight of Meta desc. and KWs. I am sure you have seen the advanced search options at [profisuche.abacho.de...]

Quite unique feature. Here you can adjust the weight of each individual parameter. However, the question about the default adjustment with their standard search option remains unclear. But I think it is reasonable to assume that Abacho put some weight to Meta descr. and KWs, concerning the standard search option, even it might be minimal.

As posted above I am pleased with my Abacho/crawler.de and speedfind.de/lotse.de rankings. But......I don`t get any significant traffic from them. May be there are some Meta SEs, which consider their database. However, according to my experience these SEs are not really worth to bother.

Heini, what are your experiences with lycos.de. Is it true that they update their database every 6 months only? Yes, lycos.de drives me to despair. Thank you.

heini

1:20 pm on Feb 16, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hello Schlitzer
"it is reasonable to assume that Abacho put some weight to Meta descr. and KWs, concerning the standard search option, even it might be minimal."
Metas do appear in standard search output when the result comes from their katalog. Katalog results however are not ranked above spidered results. In spidered results the first words of the body text is displayed.
I found a page without any metas, just the title, listed on No 1 for a very specific keyword.
Do they send traffic? Hmmmh, well, didnīt work on them too much since now. Only a few pages (the wrong ones)had been listed. Maybe from now on I will be flooded...
Endemann Ag, the owners have recently bought some minor SEs, they do bellissima, perhaps eventually they will become a bigger player.
Lycos? If you just add url or wait for results from OPD to pop up, itīs just the way you described it. My last added pages are from august. There must be a faster way...

oLeon

1:27 pm on Feb 16, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Regarding Abacho,
I think that keyword in URL has got its weight, not that much as in Fireball, but it has (so to say as default). I got some results which only fitted to the domain, otherwise only "under construction" content. Thatīs a very good signal to figure out that algo around domain-ranking.
Also I would assume that the following helps ranking:
kw in description: yes
kw in header: yes
and of course kw-densitiy.
My experience is that we are ranked well but get no traffic due to the lack of users on these Abacho-machines (crawler, abacho, bellissima, columbus-finder...).
(BTW, weīve got about 2000 pages in its index, and the traffic we got is just 5% of the same numbers of pages in Fireball or Infoseek)

regarding Lycos.de,
weīve got some pages in their index, but unfortunately did this happen in summer last year, during their big update. Meanwhile I am not quite sure if there was an update in january, because we lost some pages or if this has to do with the switch to another index (of FAST, I am not sure if this has happend right now).

heini

2:41 pm on Feb 16, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



oLeon
I tested abacho with rather low competitive KWs, this might have caused the different results. On very competitive KWs domain and description may very well be taken into account.
About Lycos.de: Do you really think they are going to switch to Fast? If so, do expect them to just plain adopting Fast index? That would be just to good!
Anyhow, I have not seen any changes in their database in January. Everything is just the same for me

oLeon

4:21 pm on Feb 16, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



At january, the 25th we lost about 1000 (test)pages in Lycos.de
not terrible, just annoyed

but itīs a good signal that seems to show changes were happening.
also the links are different, before this date there was a redirect to count the clicks on the listings(like directhit does - okay, it might be that it was like that because lycos used the directhit results/software untill this day)
now these redirect is gone, and with it our test-pages. also the relevance lycos assumed this page has regarding to your search is gone (no percent-numbers), just as the first results I guessed which came from direct-hit.
so there happened something but I donīt now what and why.

rencke

10:47 pm on Feb 22, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



oLeon:
You were right and I was wrong about Google DNS lookup in Germany #2. Look what Boaz just got in the e-mail from Google in this discussion:
[webmasterworld.com...]
They *are* toying with DNS lookup, but it doesn't quite work yet. That's why people have these problems ending up in all kinds of Google sites other than the one they wanted. Sorry I didn't believe you. (And I still can't believe how they can do a DNS lookup so incredibly quickly. When I trace back, it takes anything from 1 to 4 seconds.)

oLeon

11:36 am on Feb 23, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Also Altavista.com does it, and I think as fast as Google does. Different is that AV only sows a pop-up window where it recommends to go to the local AV.

oLeon

11:46 am on Feb 23, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Regarding Altavista.de:
try a search for "erotik" and look at the page that appears! It seems that AV.de does it job well, because in Germany itīs not allowed to show porn-things to not-adults (i.e. over 18 years old).

Interesting is (after you click the I-agree-button) that now - I didnīt notice that before - above the results it is showed the big banner of private.com - I thought that would not happen to us Germans due to the laws concerning porn-content.

oLeon

9:07 am on Mar 1, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Now itīs sure due to the (almost) same listings:
Lycos Germany [lycos.de] is also on the train to Norway.
I noticed that today, I donīt know how long it has already been like that.

BTW: On the homepage from Lycos.de there is a FAST-logo since months, but I missed the results of FAST. I thought Lycos.de would only use the software, but now I am sure that itīs the same db.

heini

11:21 am on Mar 1, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Good news oLeon
lycos.de search behaves rather strange though. Search in "im deutschsprachigen Raum"
doesnīt show fast results (at least not my pages).
Some searches "weltweit" or "deutsch" produce no results at all. Hickups because of restructuring?

oLeon

1:50 pm on Mar 1, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I saw these new results within the search "im deutschsprachigen Raum". I tried to catch the same results at Alltheweb.com, and it worked. Try "bosch bohrhammer" in both machines, youīll get nearly the same order of the results.

Yes, I noticed, too, that some searches return no results. It seems that it doesnīt have a good connection to the FAST-index (time out?).

heini

2:09 pm on Mar 1, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



oLeon
just tried bosch bohrhammer: 6(!) results in weltweit...
127 results in deutschsprachig
607 in alltheweb
different ones alltogether...
maybe they are switching back and forth
Do the 6 results perhaps come from their own katalog err, no, just tried this. wrong guesss.
Itīs puzzling. Anyhow, concerning my pages listed it seems they are using an old version of fastīs db.

rencke

2:47 pm on Mar 1, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Tried "Schweden" im weltweiten Internet (worldwide) before lunch and got nothing. Tried again just now and found 363174 pages, same number and ranking order as in Evreka.com and presumably in other Fast based engines - but not in alltheweb.com which has a different ranking order and doesn't show the number of pages anymore.

Lycos.no = new name for spray.no, some of the images are picked up from spray and this can be seen when the page loads. But lycos.no is still powered by DirectHit, not by Fast. Wonder if Kvasir.no might have an exclusive license?

Conclusion. Today is roll-out day for the new Lycos.de and they had some temporary problems, now gone. Agree?

oLeon

3:07 pm on Mar 1, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



tried it, too:
1(!) results in weltweit...
329 results in deutschsprachig (3 hours ago)
127 -"- (now)
607 in alltheweb

Seems we should wait before we try to figure out what happens.

heini

9:49 am on Mar 7, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi
So, as you all will have recognised, Lycos.de
has settled by now. Results are very much the same as presented by alltheweb. Beautiful!
But what about infoseek.de?
Has anybody heard anything lately, about where they are going to get their results from? I have seen some fresh results lately, but my pages do ot get respidered, nor do they index all my new pages. This lasts since september!
I have submitted frequently since then, but nothing happens. I am going to e-mail them.

oLeon

10:46 am on Mar 8, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



<<But what about infoseek.de?
Has anybody heard anything lately, about where they are going to get their results from? I have seen some fresh results lately, but my pages do ot get respidered, nor do they index all my new pages.>>

I assume the fresh results are pages which were respidered. I didnīt hear anything about that IS got into its index recently, but I know -from our logfiles- that IS does respider pages which are already in its index. Since end of november there must be a new filter to hinder spam-submissions.
Only once a new submitted page has been spidered, but it didnīt get into the index. I really donīt know why not, but I would guess that the keyword-densitiy of my page is too high (about 9%). Unfortunately I cannot prove that due to the lack of getting in its index.

heini

11:15 am on Mar 8, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



oLeon
they only indexed my main index.html back in September last year, but never respidered it. They never followed any links, though I tried to make it easy for them spiders. Itīs not that I have tried to get new domains indexed, just my main domain. And Iīm pretty sure they have added new pages - from domains they had indexed before - since then. Why not mine, damm it!? My traffic comes from the content pages, not the index.html. have e-mailed them, no awnser until now. Why canīt they switch to something reasonable like google or fast... sigh...

oLeon

3:41 pm on Mar 8, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Might be you got no reply due to your email-account at Fireball ? ;-))

Our last page which got into the index appears at the 20th of nov. After that date only respidering happened.

heini

12:36 pm on Mar 9, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



oLeon
I was cautious not to contact them via firemail, and know what- they awnsered! A rather dire statement, saying my site would be added ("zugefügt/aktualisiert") manually.
Well we will see if that happens, when and how. Somehow I picture them actualising the index.html and nothing else...

msgraph

8:33 pm on Mar 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Rencke, oLeon, Heini?

Have any stats on...

[meta.rrzn.uni-hannover.de...]

How many people use it and/or how popular it is?

I notice that it's set up like a typical meta search engine with results from various sources.

I pull quite a number of referrals from there so it seems like pretty well known engine.

rencke

9:58 pm on Mar 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I have never heard of it and it is not on the list of Alba36, which is believed to be the biggest list of German SE:s around. It belongs to two departments in the University of Hanover, both oriented towards computer systems. If you are pulling measurable traffic from there, my guess is that it is because your site happens to rank well for search terms of special interest to these particular students. Perhaps our learned German members can add more wisdom to this.

heini

10:12 pm on Mar 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



msgraph
just take a look at their own stats [jserv.rrzn.uni-hannover.de ].
Boasting themselfes as one of the most visited german SEs, which at least doesnīt show in my referrals. They are bring more traffic in than abacho and the like. In our logs they are coming in at like No 4 or 5 in Germany. But on above mentioned page you will find more infos. The reason why it has not been mentioned here before is, that it is in fact a pure meteengine. The engines it works with are listed on the main search page, it can even be personalized by the user.

Rumbas

10:55 pm on Mar 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I've also picked up a good ammount of traffic from there. Not on technical or scientific terms but rather competetive keywords.

They are surely not my largest provider - Lycos.de is my favourite for the moment :)

This 61 message thread spans 3 pages: 61