Forum Moderators: buckworks
I explained to the prospective customer that he should have placed the order via the site and that we would have given him a different, more direct address to send the cheque (we don't work at the registered office - mail is forwarded from there to us every couple of weeks).
Anyway, there is no sign of the cheque. The registered office staff say they have not received anything for us recently.
The customer accepts that and says he will send a new cheque.
That's fair enough but he's now asking us to write to his bank and absolve the first cheque. Here's his request - it has poor english.
It's difficult to not think that this is a scam. Being a bit sceptical I assume that he's going to use the absolve letter to cancel the real cheque which he will send.
Then again. He could just be a genuine customer and this is something the bank / building society do regularily.
[edited by: Frank_Rizzo at 3:38 pm (utc) on Sep. 8, 2006]
[edited by: lorax at 7:42 pm (utc) on Sep. 8, 2006]
I've never heard of a bank refusing to cancel a cheque on request, although maybe I'm missing something.
Only thing I can think of is if you send a letter saying you will not cash a cheque reference 1234567. He then sends that cheque (1234567) as the supposed replacement check. You've already stated it won't be cashed. So then maybe you become liable.
Cut out the middle man get the banks fax/phone, check it with that banks head office.
At least the site does not sell a physical product - it's subscription based. Maybe the dude hasn't realised yet!
I'll just ignore it.
[edited by: Frank_Rizzo at 8:32 pm (utc) on Sep. 8, 2006]
If you ever get a second check (which I doubt), then you can consider doing something about the first check.
How much money is involved? General rule is that scammers, even from the world's poorest countries, don't bother with small sums.
Did the customer give you his full name, address and phone number? How old is his account? Talk to a bank officer about your suspicions. I'd think that you could get a feel for the customer's trustworthiness within 10 minutes using Google.
Sounds like a scam, but an innovative one (which is incredibly rare)
What I'll do is ask him for the name and contact number of the person he is dealing with in his bank. I'll offer to phone them directly. If he supplies that and the person on the other end exists then he's bona fide!
But has he given you his own contact info and details?. If you contact the bank, your first question should be how long his account has been open
This whole deal seems like a lot of YOUR time wasted on his $60 or $120 dollars. If we lost a $60 check we wouldn't bother to pay $20 for stop payment order. Likely the check would never turn up or never be used.
And, as I said, Stop payment orders don't alway work.
When he went back to the building society to report a lost cheque and to withdraw another he says they are insisting that my co. produces a letter saying that we won't cash the first cheque if it ever arrives.
I don't need to cancel the cheque. He says the building society want it confirmed that the bankers draft has been lost and will not be cashed before they give him a refund and issue a new cheque.
Could be genuine, could be not.
I don't need to cancel the cheque. He says the building society want it confirmed that the bankers draft has been lost and will not be cashed before they give him a refund and issue a new cheque.
not true, banks (in england and i imagine worldwide) don't work like that, a cheque/bank draft/building society cheque - call it what you will is not cash, if it has been 'stopped' then the drawing bank will not pay on it, even if another bank accepts it, that bank will not be given the funds and will thus charge back whoever they 'cashed' it for.
only some bearer bonds are like cash - they feature in movies sometimes, usually about gangsters or robberies etc.
but the rest is irrelevant, basically no-one would send a cheque legitametely without telling you first, for too many reasons to even bother listing here.
This one has been bugging me, can't see the scam.
just because you can't see a scam doesn't mean it isn't there, for instance the bank could be fake and the scammer is hoping that you quote your bank details in the letter, alternatively ... the thing about scamming is that the best scammers lure you slowly and the real scam is only revealed (never actually revealed of course) later
I would not do anything in writing however. What if someone stole the check out of the mail? It's plausible if they sent it and you never received it. The crook would attempt to cash it in your name of course since it's made out to you. This would look like to cashed it, and they would have a letter against you.
He says the building society want it confirmed that the bankers draft has been lost and will not be cashed before they give him a refund and issue a new cheque.
There's a lot you aren't saying. Aren't YOU capable of contacting the issuing bank to learn these things for YOURSELF?
And again I ask: Do you have full contact info on this guy? Name, Address and and landline phone You haven't mentioned what country he's from which plays a big role in any calculation of fraud risk.
---
On the other hand, it seems this involves a certified or cashiers check or something like a money order...not a regular check. If so, this guy may not even have an account with the bank. That might explain why the bank wants assurance that the draft won't be cashed. Again, phone his bank and ask.
Also it seems that you won't be requesting a stop payment for him, but you'll only be assuring the bank you won't cash it if it turns up. Not the same thing.
Sounds more like this guy might be trying to rip off the check issuer, not you. But that's not likely given the small amount.
Very hard to get a handle on this.
A few years ago I had a potential "customer" from a Pacific Rim country claimed a cashier's check had been sent to us for merchandise. The check never arrived. So, the con artist said she was going to stop payment and send another cashier's check. Later we got a second check...we had our bank run a draft on the check before we shipped the order. As it turned out...the cashier's check was counterfeit (for $2100.00 worth of merchandise).
It may be the con angle in this case is to feel you out and at the same time "earn" your trust.
Oldpro, I think that is the type of scam which is going on here. The only problem is that it's for just £34.95 (I checked an earlier email of his) so it's not a lot of money. And secondly, the payment is for a subscription service and not a physical product! That's the strange thing about it. We aren't selling anything which can be 'lifted'.
But as an earlier poster said - the guy could slowly be building up confidence and try and force me to send my bank account details, copy of ID etc. That will be the time when I contact the authorities.
His spelling is poor, he keeps calling me Don for some reason. The email address and IP are for a large UK ISP and not a throwaway address or foreign country.
jsinger you seem to be getting worked up about this. I am capable of contacting his bank and will do so as soon as and if he gives me the contact details.
Again I ask where this guy is located. Des Moines Iowa, or Lagos, for example. There is a difference.
You're allowing this probable scammer to lead you around on a leash. Demand bank contact info from him; let him know you're going to have your "security department" phone the bank for details. Make it sound like you're just a clerk in a large company that has professionals to handle security issues.
Bet you'll never hear from him again.
... That will be the time when I contact the authorities.
Oldpro, I think that is the type of scam which is going on here. The only problem is that it's for just £34.95 (I checked an earlier email of his) so it's not a lot of money. And secondly, the payment is for a subscription service and not a physical product!
You are right, I did overlook that fact it was not a physical product...however, it could be the scammer overlooked it too. Let's suppose the scam is on a larger scale...ie; using smaller amounts of money and hitting random websites with the scam. It makes more sense to do say 1000 counterfeit checks in small funds. Less likely the seller would take legal action.
I imagine these are people trying to steal products on a massive scale then resale them at a handsome profit.
Simply tell them you have not received anything and the ball is in their court.
Not only is it easy, but it's also true.
I am capable of contacting his bank and will do so as soon as and if he gives me the contact details.
Oldpro, I think that is the type of scam which is going on here.
look, there was no cheque - not your problem, ignore it, move on
if you start chasing this, contacting banks and so on, you just end up wasting your time and could end up out of pocket
6 billion people on this planet - i bet you didn't get cheques from at least 5.999 billion of them - you gonna contact all their banks as well?
is it a scam? who cares?!
MOVE ON
[edited by: RailMan at 8:09 am (utc) on Sep. 11, 2006]
When he went back to the building society to report a lost cheque and to withdraw another he says they are insisting that my co. produces a letter saying that we won't cash the first cheque if it ever arrives.I don't need to cancel the cheque. He says the building society want it confirmed that the bankers draft has been lost and will not be cashed before they give him a refund and issue a new cheque.
OMG can't believe you're being sucked into this and even considering that it could be genuine
it ain't your problem ........
haven't you got a business to run? or grass to cut? or something more productive to do?
It's just a genuine request for info to see if this is a known scam, a new scam, or just a simple case of a dumb customer with poor english.
If it is a scam isn't it fair to find out what exactly the scam is and then be in a position to warn others?
BTW, nothing heard since I asked him for contact details. I'll go mow the grass instead.
A wise use of time, and far less likely to put
a notch in anyone else's belt. :)
I can't really see what other use this scam could be for.
On Tuesday he emails me a phone number and contact name for his local building society branch.
It's a direct landline no. and not a central call center. Just in case I phone the head office to check that number is valid. It is - it is a branch in South East London.
Today I managed to contact the person at the branch and ask what is going on.
The customer was issued a building society cheque made payable to my company. As far as the building society are concerned the customer is debited the ammount as soon as the cheque is printed.
This is not like a standard cheque book where he writes out a cheque and it is debited when I present it. It is a building society cheque which is debited from the customer immediately and regardless if it is ever cashed or not.
Obviously the customer is a bit concerned about this as he now has to pay twice if he wants over service. He asked the building society for a refund (not a stop as those cheques can not be stopped).
In order for him to have a refund the building society need my company to issue a letter stating that we will not cash the cheque if it ever turns up.
At this stage I mentioned to the lady that surely it is her problem and nothing to do with me. AFAIK he may have lost the cheque down the side of his sofa - it's not in my building. She gets a bit shirty asking if my company treats all customers like that!
That's just typical of a building society associated with one of the largest banks in the UK. They need all this paperwork in order to refund a customer who, as yet, has not officially placed an order with us!
Remember, what happened was that someone emails me out of the blue saying
"I sent you a cheque to your registered office"
But we never received it.
The lady insists that we write out a letter on company paper and send to the customer for him to bring into the bank. I find this strange and asked if I could write directly to her.
I explained to the lady that I am concerned about identity theft and she told me to tell the customer that and to deal with him directly. She promptly hangs up.
What now Einsteins?
[edited by: Frank_Rizzo at 3:13 pm (utc) on Sep. 13, 2006]
