The ODP

How much does a listing benefit your site?

[Mike12345]

In an earlier discussion:What if Google drops the ODP? [webmasterworld.com]

Brett talks about the possibility that Yahoo could force Google to drop the ODP. He asks, if that were ever the case, how would that affect the general webmaster?

My reponse to that question would be, not a lot. Which got me thinking, why do people put so much emphasis on being listed in the ODP? I asked myself how much has been listed in the ODP actually helped me? The answer: Not much!

Prior to being listed in the relevant category of the ODP we had #1 listings for a few KW's in Google. After being listed we still hold those positions, We have another site thats not listed that holds good postions also.

So i ask how much does it actually help, has anyone got any examples of how it has benefited them? apart getting a link form a valuable resource, what else about the ODP goes in our favour.

I know of some webmasters who believe it is the key to SERP success.

Im anticipating that some will reply with something along the lines of... I was doing poorly in the SERP's until i got listed now im #1. This is not what im looking for im looking for good reasons as to why it seems to be so important, and some kind of evidence to support peoples claims that it alone has benefited them.

Disclaimer: Im not saying in anyway that the ODP is rubbish or useless, i am merely trying to establish how it has benefited peoples sites, when you can acheieve good postions without it. Im not calling for lovers and haters of the ODP to verbally bash the ODP or me or each other. Just a sensible calm discussion.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

:)

[creative craig]

I can only back up what you are saying I am afraid.

I have sites that are listed in the ODP, before they were in they held high position (some #1) in the SERPS, now they are in the directory they still have the same high rankings, I cant say that I have seen any improvement because of an ODP listing.

I have a few sites that are not in the ODP and they also have good rankings (#1's again).

IMO it is just another backlink, the PR boost 99% of the time is minimal as you share it with up to 50 or more sites some times, and the deeper you get into the directory the less the page rank you earn.

IMO of course ;)

Craig

[John_Caius]

An ODP listing is really helpful to a new site starting out - it gets it regularly spidered, a decent starting page rank of 3-4 most of the time (depending on the category of course) and a bit of traffic. Once a site has a bit of traffic, it starts to be picked up by other sites wanting to exchange links etc. and it grows from there.

But it's very much luck of the draw whether you get listed quickly or very slowly. Certainly it's not the be all and end all but it's a help at the start.

For major sites it's of pretty limited value, as they have so many other links. However it can be useful to highlight subsections of the site, e.g. the BBC Health link recently added to the top level of the Health category.

[Mike12345]

"......deeper you get into the directory the less the page rank you earn." - very valid point, forgot to mention that one my intial post. Nice one. :) just further affirms my theory.

John_Caius - i agree when you say it can help you at the start because its spidered regualarly etc. but only for the purpose of inclusion to the Google index. However this result can be acheived by getting a link from any site that is visited by Freshbot.

To quote creative_craig again "IMO it is just another backlink" i would most definatly agree.

Thanks for your input guys, anyone else?

:)

[John_Caius]

It's also a big psychological boost when you get listed - rumours suggest that this can add days if not weeks on to your lifespan... ;)

[creative craig]

It has a reverse effect when you edit there though, can take weeks off when you see one site spammed into every cat and subcat you look after :(

Craig

Happend last week to me

[Mike12345]

lol! - on both counts :) i Take it everyone else is at pubcon.

[creative craig]

Yeah the lucky buggers :(

[heini]

An ODP listing is a great value, exceeding that ole PR value by far.
Being listed in the ODP gives a site a solid foundation to build upon. The listing will get propagated through out the entire web.
An ODP link is usually pretty stable. Other sites come and go, they change their links, they get penalized by Google. Other directories come and go: the ODP has survived them all.

[creative craig]

Good point heini, but I still feel that people put to much emphasis on a ODP listing thinking that it is the holy grail to a high ranking page.

[Mike12345]

Once again, i agree with CG. Way too much emphasis on ODP.

"Being listed in the ODP gives a site a solid foundation to build upon" - How does this give solid foundation? in what sense?

Surely being included on link pages is just as solid, you say they get penalised etc. but the whole process of gathering links is quicker on the whole than getting an ODP listing.

If a site that links to you get penalised, then nevermind, get another more valuable link elsewhere.

ODP may have outlived may other places but i draw your attention to the afore mentioned thread, discussing the possibility of the ODP been dumped.

:)

[Mohamed_E]

I do not believe that the ODP is a terribly important link, but every bit helps. And it counts as at least two links, after Google picks up the listing. I am very dubious about the other thousands of deservedly obscure ODP clones, Google gives most of the the zero PR that they richly deserve.

It also has more PR than GoGuides or JoeAnt, and how many of us are listed in those two obscure directories?

I think it would be irresponsible for any decent site not to try to get included. But very counterproductive to get depressed if inclusion fails.

<edit>Corrected typo</edit>

[edited by: Mohamed_E at 5:27 pm (utc) on April 25, 2003]

[creative craig]

Hey Goguides are going places, I edit there ;)

[tennismaster]

I can only give a limited view of any benefits from ODP,
as we have only been listed for around a month or so in
ODP and Google Directories.
However, we already seen useful traffic from small regional
directories, which upon investigation get there listings from ODP.

Also when getting into google directory, you do get a useful
extra line in your description!

I cannot see any help with the SERPS though.

TM

[rfgdxm1]

The straight answer: in almost all cases, an ODP listing is worth very little in terms of doing better in search engines. However, every little bit helps, and one can submit to the ODP free and quickly.

[Mike12345]

Am i correct in assuming that the general consensus is:

As far as getting higher in the SERPs ODP helps little.
But as far as getting a good quality link, ODP is helpful.

Not the "holy grail" its purported to be.

?

[John_Caius]

When a site is just starting out, an ODP link helps a lot in getting higher SERPs. This often remains the case in uncompetitive keyphrases, where top ten sites sometimes have less than five backlinks with PR>4.

[jp29997]

Am i correct in assuming that the general consensus is:

As far as getting higher in the SERPs ODP helps little.
But as far as getting a good quality link, ODP is helpful.

That does appear to be the consensus, but I think that the consensus is skewed because the poster asked that this thread not include anecdotes about how a link in the ODP dramatically changed a site's ranking in Google. I guess that's because there's been plenty of threads about this in the past, but still to disinvite people, like me, who experienced dramatic and controlled results of ODP's effect will automatically adjust downward the assessment of ODP's impact.

The first move I made when I was assigned SEO responsibilities was to pursue a DMOZ listing. That DMOZ listing was the only SEO action step implemented that month. We went from #32 in a very competitive keyword targetted by several different markets of searchers to #4 below only huge, absolutely entrenched companies that have nothing to do with our own site's function. The subsequent increase in targetted traffic, meant increased sales,brand awareness,raises, promotions, etc. My site owes this to dmoz, of that I'm sure.

[heini]

Frankly, I don't think this has to do with opinions.

If people here are talking about ranking they mostly talk about Google ranking.
For Google ranking this is just another link. It passes a certain amount of PR, and it carries weight for the linktext. Period.

When people like me however put more value on a dmoz listing than on most other listings, than this is not because of the PR. It's because a dmoz listing is viral in nature. It's more stable than many other listings. It still carries a certain reputation. (Not among the webmasters who can't get in, of course :)).

As somebody said: with an odp listing and a good yahoo listing you could start a business.
Not so sure about the Yahoo part anymore, but I still try to get a ODP listing for each new site.

[edited by: heini at 5:36 pm (utc) on April 28, 2003]

[cornwall]

>>If people here are talking about ranking they mostly talk about >>Google ranking.
>>For Google ranking this is just another link. It passes a certain >>amount of PR, and it carries weight for the linktext. Period.

That sums the position up. If you try and fail (or wait for months) for an ODP entry, then your site will not be hampered any more in your search for Google PR (or Google serp positioning) than if you had merely got another same value link instead.

Submit to ODP (if you can bear the problems with their current add url glitches) wait a few months, and if you are not in (assuming your site is suitable) then chase up ODP in the time honoured ways!

[SEO practioner]

rfgmx...

Quickly? Is 5 months considered quick?

gee...

[Mike12345]

I think what rfgdxm1 is saying is that it quick to Submit to. not for inclusion.