fake (c) signs

can you use them?

[sidyadav]

Just saw a thread where you could use TM signs in your logo etc., even though you're not registered, so was wondering, can anyone put:

(c)2004, widgets company, Inc. All Rights Reserved

even though he/she has not REALLY registered a copyright?

I mean, I know you can't go to the court and say "I had a (c) sign up", but is it free/legal to put one, when you know you can't take any actions if the content is copyrighted?
It will just scare people away from copyrighting your content ;)

Sid

[edited by: sidyadav at 2:56 am (utc) on Jan. 14, 2004]

[ScottM]

Use a 'C' anytime you want to claim a copyright.

Use the TM or SM anytime you want to claim a Trademark/ServiceMark

The 'R' with a circle around it is a nationally registered TM/SM

[rogerd]

ScottM's right, sidyadav - it's not fake. It's legal and free. Go for it! :)

[sidyadav]

Thanks ScottM and rogerd! I always thought it was illegal and felt guilty about putting it there. I'm glad I asked this question over here.

Thanks again,
Sid

[clearvision]

"When can I use the trademark symbols TM, SM and ®?

Any time you claim rights in a mark, you may use the "TM" (trademark) or "SM" (service mark) designation to alert the public to your claim, regardless of whether you have filed an application with the USPTO. However, you may use the federal registration symbol "®" only after the USPTO actually registers a mark, and not while an application is pending. Also, you may use the registration symbol with the mark only on or in connection with the goods and/or services listed in the federal trademark registration. "

Found it on a site!

[limbo]

That is very valuable - I was making the assumption that any copy had to be registered before it was 'legally' your own. So you are saying even if I have made no attempt to copyright the information it is legally mine with the addition of (C)?

That seems too easy!

[rogerd]

Limbo, my non-lawyer understanding: the copyright is legally yours for what you publish even without the notice. Nevertheless, most publishers include the notice to let others know that they are asserting their ownership rights.

[Mike12345]

All above seems true, but surely you have to be able to prove that in a court of law?

[satanclaus]

All above seems true, but surely you have to be able to prove that in a court of law?

Yeah I would think you're right. From experience that little c certainly does a job of scaring off alot of would be content thiefs.

[Harry]

Several countries use a simpler set of rules than the US which benefits me as I'm not US-based. Their rule is simple. The moment it is created, you own it.

Registration for copyrights is seen as an added bonus, not a requirement.

Therefore adding the (c) after you've create something, like fresh copy, puts your claim right away.

In the United States, you must register to prove your claims. In Canada, a self stamped registered and sealed envelope is enough.

[choster]

It is my understanding (I am not an intellectual property lawyer) that (c) and (C) confer no legal protections in the countries which adhere to older copyright standards, but it has not been tested. The proper symbol (©) should be used-- there is no reason not to in HTML, which has three or four different ways to display it-- plus the word Copyright, although as noted these are not required in Berne Convention countries, whose signatories include almost every country in the world (including Vatican City and North Korea and but not Iran or Bhutan).

[edited by: choster at 10:49 pm (utc) on Jan. 14, 2004]

[bcolflesh]

Copyright (US):
copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

Trademarks (US):
uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/index.html

[Jeff_H]

I don't believe the intent was to examine whether (c) or © is more valid. The poster was concerned about falsely claiming copyright.

As some people have pointed out, in the US and a saucepan of other countries (as opposed to a handful), you automatically own the copyright to the work you create, whether you mark it or not.

However, registering a copyright, I understand, is useful in legal situations where you need to prove the copyright.

Of course, the usual disclaimer: I'm no legal expert =)

[JayC]

Several countries use a simpler set of rules than the US which benefits me as I'm not US-based. Their rule is simple. The moment it is created, you own it.
[...]
In the United States, you must register to prove your claims.

Nope, in the US it's just as you said in your first paragraph: you own the copyright upon "first publication." Registration isn't necessary -- but can be extremely valuable if you do end up in court, and is generally necessary for you to collect damages from an infringement suit.