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The future of the web depends on cloaking

How long before users demand it?

         

victor

8:13 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The web is very primitive in customising data streams to users.

What we really need is user-agent-requested cloaking.

Example, I should be able to set my browser to ask for....

  • Pages in french, german or english (in that order) if you've got them
  • Prices in USD or Euro if you let me pay in those currencies
  • Total page size (including images) no bigger than 500k because I am on broadband so I want hi-res images
  • Screen size 800x600 because I'm using a beat-up laptop while the kids play games on the real machine, so adjust your content as appropriate
  • No Javascript please -- give me CSS for mouseovers (it's an old browser with poor JS support)
  • No "adult" content please -- the kids are in the room

    ....and the server/website mixes and matches images, pages, includes, navigations etc etc to closely match what I want.

    The days of one URL = one data stream are surely almost over, and it is time we started moving towards giving people what they want.

    The customer may not always be right, but they are all different. Customisation is the path to good service, and "cloaking" is the on-ramp.

  • Mike_Mackin

    8:18 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    victor

    You got the post of the year - imho

    glengara

    8:28 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    Where does the cloaking come in?

    victor

    8:38 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    Where does the cloaking come in?

    Cloaking (at least as I'm using it) means serving different content to different users. It normally means doing so to spiders in order to trick them.

    Maybe we need a different term -- let's try to think of something snappier than user-requested customisation.

    But the days of a spider expecting to find "the" page behind a URL will, I hope, soon be gone. A URL is the front door to content, but that content was never intended to be a single set of files.

    Search engines are holding back the development of the web by enforcing such an outdated model. The 20th Century was a long time ago.

    (Of course, serving content to deceive a spider will still be acrime punishable by exclusion).

    martinibuster

    8:39 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



    I think the term cloaking is being used because that is the usual term for the process of serving a variety information based upon the user-agent.

    But maybe this goes beyond cloaking.

    glengara

    8:47 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    OK, usual problem, I have a different idea of cloaking, basically IP delivery based on spider identification.
    Not in Victor's scenario.

    NFFC

    8:50 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    It would be nice if we could respect the original poster and try and keep on topic. Those who wish to debate the meaning of a word should look at this recent thread [webmasterworld.com...]

    Thank you.

    glengara

    8:58 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    Well in that case I'd say it's more a limited browser configuration problem than anything else.

    Nick_W

    9:00 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    You got the post of the year - imho

    Yep, you sure did Victor ;)

    It's quite astonishing that the engines are still (sweeping generalizaion coming..) classifying cloaking as bad in such a general manner.

    Delivery based on user expectation/prefernce is pretty simple from a webmasters point of view and to not use all the tools at your disposal in order to create great sites would be criminal.

    I think the days of 1 IP = 1 data stream are numbered also but, let's not forget that though we may find this concept simple, the vast majority of sites on the net are not made by die hards like us. They're made by 'joe bloggs' who has an interest in 'widgets'.

    Untill software for this becomes more mainstream, it'll still be a tool only for pro's...

    Nick

    kevinpate

    9:02 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    Seems like Victor is driving at DUDE - which could be the acronym for either:
    Delivering User Defined Elements
    Dynamic User Driven Experience

    Which of course might mean some day a webmaster looks over his girlfriend Delia's shoulder as she surfs and whispers .... Dell, you're getting a DUDE! 8^)

    victor

    11:32 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    Nick, I suspect the average Joe Bloggs is used to configuring preferences in their operating system and applications (how files in folders display, whether to throttle the damned paperclip, what units of measure or date formats to use, colors, fonts, etc).

    What they don't get to do is make the same sort of explicit choices for web browsing....

  • We might try to guess from their IP address or the user-agent locale settings
  • Or we save information in cookies
  • Or we force them to log on just so they can tell us what they've told 50 other sites about how they want to see things
  • But, more likely, we simply treat everyone as indistinguishable and serve them the same content.

    Kevin, I think that's it. I don't have a snappy acronym, but we should be able to shape webpages according to two broad areas of customisation:

  • Machine capabilities (Like line speed, window size, fonts installed, sound or multi-media abilities). This may involve a handshake negotiation between the user agent and the website. Or maybe the AU simple advertises its abilities.
  • User preferences (which may override any of the machine capabilities) plus things like preferences for languages, currencies, units of measure, image sizes, etc).

    A URL is then a pointer to a service that assembles the right elements. It won't be a single, immutable, thing any more. And the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

  • stevedob

    11:45 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    Can we not, on an individual domain basis at least, already do something approaching this sort of 'user-accomodating experience'?

    I'm located in the UK, but I price in US$, as that is my major market. I would be quite happy though to display those prices in any of the currencies that I would be prepared to provide a quote for.

    I could use cookie-based info to dictate what currency gets displayed, having allowed the user to choose their currency. No cookie would mean US$, which would wht the SEs saw.

    Additional display options could be offered in a similar user-selectable fashion - e.g. no images, low-res images, different language, etc.

    So far then, we get to provide a user-driven display without cloaking. The site seen by the spider would be the same as that seen by a new visitor coming from that engine.

    The cookie, however, is not accessible by other domains, so the user loses out on having defined how they want to see their surfing session.

    Can a case be made for a local 'über-cookie' of some form? Readable by any domain, and containing a standard set of storable items - currency, image definition, language. Most browsers seem to already have 'accessibility' options built into them. Is it not a case of standardising those, and then making them available to the server that the content is requested from? That could even allow the exact same page to be spidered by different language SEs, providing the spider correctly reported what language it wanted to see.