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Broadband customers in Japan 10 or 20 Million?

Article claims 20 million

         

whats up skip

3:21 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



There was a thread here only six weeks ago and the conclusion was there were about 10 million BB users in Japan, but this article from Routers is claiming about 20 million. [reuters.co.uk...]

After my trip to Japan a couple of weeks ago I can see that the growth in BB will continue to be strong with all the promotion going on, like at the major suburban stations in Osaka and Tokyo. Though they weren't too keen to sign me up when I said I needed it in Australia, bugger! 12Mbps sure beats 0.5Mbps.

A few things did come out from my research into the BB market in Japan.

Many people who had 12Mbps couldn't use it properly as their PCs were too old. One user I interview could not play even 1/4 screen video and though she needed 100Mbps. After explaining that you only need 1.5Mbps to play full screen video she was very surprised. Simply the PC did not have the grunt to play video let alone full frame video. This is going to be a real problem in the market as people are signing up for 12Mbps, when they probably only need 2Mbps. Clearly the BB providers do not want to educate the market on this issue as very people will go for the higher cost plans.

Another thing that came out were the number of people who could not get ADSL as they were too far from the exchange and they lived in apartment blocks that could not have cable tv/internet put in. This really surprised me, not about the apartment being too old, but the distance to the exchange. This is a major problem in Australia, you would expect here, but not in the suburbs of Osaka.

From what I read in the YahooBB magazine they are in the process of getting some new equipment that should increase the range from the exchange (at 2Mbps) and allow upto 24Mbps for those very close to the exchange.

There does not seem to be much content out there for this hugh broadband market to use. I have been disappointed the number of Japanese readers viewing the video on our web site (it has only been a month or so), but I am sure this will improve over time.

I was very pleased to see that 1.5Mbps video hosted in the USA played fine on YahooBB in Osaka. It will be interesting to see over time how the pipes to USA and other parts of the world cope with the hugh BB sink that is Japan.

bill

3:58 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The latest stories I've read say that the number now is about 10 million BB users [japantoday.com] in Japan.

100 Mbps fiber optic connections have been around in Japan and available for the public since at least 2000, if not earlier. It's just now that YahooBB has been slashing prices that started a boom in cheap internet access. Now in order to attract new customers they have to offer more capacity for less. Whether the consumer can use the bandwidth or has the hardware to take advantage of it is not really an issue. People here are notorious for throwing out perfectly usable high tech products and getting new models at the drop of a hat. I think it's more important that they're simply getting the coverage out there and it's spreading.

takagi

5:54 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The reply of Bill is correct; at the end of May the number of subscribers was about 10.5 million:

ADSL subscribers
12/2001 1,524,348
12/2002 5,645,728
04/2003 7,477,945
05/2003 7,907,437

FTTH (fiber) subscribers
01/2002 12,337
12/2002 206,189
04/2003 346,936
05/2003 398,336

Internet subscribers using cable TV network
12/2001 1,303,000
12/2002 1,954,000
04/2003 2,135,000
05/2003 2,183,000

Total of ADSL/FTTH/Cable
12/2001 2.84 million
12/2002 7.81 million
04/2003 9.96 million
05/2003 10.49 million

But I read the article as 20 million users, that would mean 2 users per subscription.

The Telecommunications Ministry said in an annual white paper that 60 million Japanese -- nearly half the population -- will be surfing the Net on high-speed broadband networks by 2007.

This compares with about 20 million now.

The number of subscribers with a dial up connection (normal telephone line) peaked at about 21.62 million in August last year and is now steadily going down as more and more people change to some form of broadband.

12/2001 19.75 million
12/2002 21.19 million
04/2003 20.26 million
05/2003 20.16 million

It is true that companies like Yahoo and NTT are spending a lot of money on broadband promotion. The monthly growth of ADSL subscribers has gone down from more than 500K to 450K in the last few months. This trend will continue; some early adapters changing from ADSL to FTTH, others not able to get ADSL because they live too far away, or happy with the cheaper dial-up connection.

David_M

6:45 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think the reason that YahooBB is pushing the 12/24mb is not so much for traditionally thought of BB services- They're hoping to cash in on Yahoo Cable and Yahoo Phone services. These run independent of the users PC and will add nicely to Yahoo's subscription revenues.

georgeek

6:56 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Nice stats takagi, thank you.

In general how does this compare with the US and European penetration?

lukasz

8:38 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



YahooBB started to advertise 26Mbits ADSL, however I think that the impresive growth of ADSL subscription is finishing. Yesterday on the street (in Fukuoka) I received ad promoting cabel (ftth) 100 Mbits connection for 4300 yen per month (abut 36USD) with almost no setup fees (7USD).

PS Whats up skip - does australian bigest telecomunication company still promote broadband with "generous" 300M download allowance?

takagi

8:43 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The Reuters article mentioned by whats_up_skip, referred to an 'annual white paper' of the Telecommunications Ministry. The IAjapan (Internet Association Japan), linked to this ministry and other organizations, released on Wednesday 'Internet White Paper 2003'. The official page [iajapan.org] (sorry only in Japanese) related to this 400-page book shows some other interesting data:
  • Japanese internet population grew from 46.2 million (Feb. 2002) to 56.5 million people (Feb. 2003).
  • 15.96 million people use broadband from home
  • 39.3% of the households with internet have broadband
  • Percentage of the Japanese population living in a household with access to internet grew in 12 months from 62.4% to 73.0%. Note: having access does not neccessarily mean using it!

bill

11:18 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

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lukasz I got my 100Mbps FTTH deal hooked up for about the same price in Osaka. Of course NTT had to go and announce that they're planning even faster service to debut within the next year or two. I'm hoping the 100Mbps will hold me for a while. ;)

takagi all these broadband figures for Japan are great, but where are they coming from? I'm not disputing the veracity of the figures, I'd just like to know the source. Thanks for the link to the IAjapan page. I had seen that quoted in the news but hadn't seen the site.

whats up skip

11:40 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think Telstra (Australia's biggest telco) raised the download limit on the standard plan to 500MB per month.

In the last six months the competition has really started to heat up (nothing like Japan though). There are many suppliers with A$99 plans with 10GB or unlimited download on 0.5Mbps ADSL. Unlike Japan where most of the content is downloaded from within Japan, Australians download more than half of their data from the USA. This is much more expensive data and something the Japanese Telcos will be making significant savings on.

How many people here are placing broadband style content on their sites - video running at 0.4Mbps or higher?

Are many people viewing this content?

What video format are the most popular in Japan; Quicktime, WM or Realplayer?

What type of content is it?

Do you think it benefits the sales results of the site?

Oh, and just what the hell are people using 12 or even 100Mbps connections for? Is there really the content out there to take advantage of it or is all just file swapping?

takagi

11:51 am on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The numbers in msg. 3 were compiled from data found on this Japanese page [soumu.go.jp], on the site of the 'Ministry of Public Management, Home Affairs, Posts and Telecommunications'. That page was released on June 27, 2003.

bill

12:23 pm on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



How many people here are placing broadband style content on their sites
I'm not, but since I got my 100Mbps FTTH connection at my house I do use a lot more streaming video and audio services. I notice that there are quite a few Japanese media outfits that are targeting this market. They are putting up some hefty pages with all of the Flash and Multimedia you can handle. My opinion is that they are just using the bandwidth and over designing the pages, but that's what I would expect from a first generation BB site. The market will mature....eventually.

Are many people viewing this content?
I'm not sure about that. Does anyone know if the YahooBB packages set your homepage to the YahooBB site? That would certainly increase the volume to some degree.

What video format are the most popular in Japan; Quicktime, WM or Realplayer?
I see a lot of QuickTime on sites. Remember that Japan is also probably Apple's best market per capita. I don't see much of Real out there. Mostly it's WM and QT, but these are personal observations, I don't have market figures for this.

Oh, and just what the hell are people using 12 or even 100Mbps connections for?
heh heh...jealous ;)

I actually got my 100Mbps FTTH because there was a deal and it cost less than my old 30Mbps cable connection (which rarely broke 1Mbps). I use my connection for video conferencing, media feeds and hopefully in the near future I can pick up a Voice over IP modem and use the extra bandwidth to free me completely from NTT's grasp. I will do all of my home phones over the net if I can.

oh...and thanks for clarifying that takagi.

lukasz

3:39 pm on Jul 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



YahooBB does not set your home page to Yahoobb site. However one of the main options on installation CD is to change home page to YahooBB (which is different to Yahoo).

Unlike Japan where most of the content is downloaded from within Japan, Australians download more than half of their data from the USA. This is much more expensive data and something the Japanese Telcos will be making significant savings on.

I believe that all big ISPs (Telstra for sure) have peering agreements in which they do not pay for data transfers between each other. Also many Japanese sites are hosted in other countries as hosting in Japan is much more expensive.

What video format are the most popular in Japan; Quicktime, WM or Realplayer

Most of new computers come with all three preinstalled. However as bill said you dont see Real often.

My 12M is actually more like 1.5M but I dont complain because I live 4 km from phone exchange.

I have some heavy sound files (1MB) on my page, with option for broadband and dialup. About twice more people choose broadband than dialup. But my page is far from being representative.

One thing is important to mention in this thread. Although the number of dialup accounts is still twice than broadband it is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. The broadband users will definetly be more active and spend more time on the net. The number of computers or users per account is also different. Dial up users rarely (never) hook up more than one computer to the net while broadband users very often have more computers connected.

David_M

4:00 am on Jul 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The broadband users will definetly be more active and spend more time on the net. The number of computers or users per account is also different. Dial up users rarely (never) hook up more than one computer to the net while broadband users very often have more computers connected.

Definitely agree! I know of one person who has a home network, with a computer for him, one for his wife, and a connection for his cousin's playstation2.

takagi

1:56 pm on Jul 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Percentage of the Japanese population living in a household with access to internet grew in 12 months from 62.4% to 73.0%. Note: having access does not neccessarily mean using it!

Let me rephrase this into: Percentage of the Japanese population living in a household, with at least 1 person having access at some place (home, work, etc) to internet grew in 12 months from 62.4% to 73.0%.

Well, being an expat, reading Japanese can be hard.

Edwin

12:06 am on Jul 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Very true. I have cable access, with 2 machines connected and we're probably going to connect a 3rd once we can figure out a good wireless lan setup. Most of the people I know with broadband also have 2+ machines connected, but I've never (yet) found anyone connecting multiple machines via dialup.

whats up skip

2:20 am on Jul 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Just been looking at the statistics for video downloads from our web site. BIG surprise WMV is at least 10 times more popular than MOV. Almost all of these are Japanese users in Japan. I expected at least 50/50 or even more MOV.

takagi

3:54 am on Jul 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Today new figures about ADSL subscriptions in Japan were released, and the growth is getting smaller. In December the growth was more than 500k, early this year it was around 450k, and in June it dropped to 350k (from 7.91M to 8.26M). Both NTT (East + West) and YahooBB grew 142k, leaving only 19% of the growth to other companies. The current ADSL market share is NTT 37.2%, YahooBB 34.2% and 28.7% for the rest.

bill

4:20 am on Jul 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



takagi I assume those figures are not including cable or FTTH at all? It's interesting that I'm starting to see a lot of promotion on the streets recently for other broadband providers. Previously it was all YahooBB people flaunting their wares (;)), but now they're fighting for the street corners. At lunch today I was approached by 3 different providers (who were all disappointed to learn that I had FTTH).

bill

1:31 am on Jul 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



related article [news.bbc.co.uk]
Yahoo Japan, the leader in Japanese fast internet access, is applying to move its shares onto the main market for Japanese stocks and off the tech startups list.

It looks like YahooBB's hard sell on the streets of Japan has worked well for them.