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Hosting in China

Beijing or Shanghai?

   
3:54 pm on Sep 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi,

I am considering hosting a mirror of my site in mainland China (to be inside the "Great Firewall" and thus faster for Chinese users).

Though my site is pro-bono and non-political, I'm not entirely sure what would happen if someone random (in government say) took exception to my content on a "bad hair day". Do they just force my SG-based hosting company to pull the plug? Do black helicopters turn up at my home in London (and will I have to learn Mandarin to ask for my lawyer)? B^>

Also, given that I don't understand AT ALL internal connectivity within China, if most of my current users seem to be from Beijing according to Google Analytics, is is it sure that I should host at a Beijing site, or what other factors/measurements should I make?

Rgds

Damon

10:40 pm on Sep 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi,

Really no opinions at all?

Have I posted to the wrong WW? B^>

Rgds

Damon

12:53 am on Sep 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator bill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I was hoping some of our members in China would jump in here as this is a topic that interests me as well. I have some upcoming meetings about this very topic in a few weeks. I'd like to know if one location is better than another.

We do have this old thread that you can refer to in the meantime: The importance of hosting Top Sites in China; Myth or Reality? [webmasterworld.com]

9:24 am on Sep 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi bill,

Thanks for that: I had already learned all I know on the subject from that excellent thread.

Having re-read it I need to add the question:

Do I need to get any sort of licence to host a mirror of my main (non-political, non-news, pro-bono) site in mainland China?

Rgds

Damon

2:34 am on Sep 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi bill,
Thanks for that: I had already learned all I know on the subject from that excellent thread.

Having re-read it I need to add the question:

Do I need to get any sort of licence to host a mirror of my main (non-political, non-news, pro-bono) site in mainland China?

Rgds

Damon


according to the regulation, you may need a licence before you can host the website in the Mainland; Since website license maybe not avaliable for you, i suggest you contact some famous ISPs to find your answer. They may meet such problem and know how to solve it.

9:51 am on Sep 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi redstorm,

Don't worry, I shall me asking my current hosting company (based in Singapore, but with hosting facilities in China) this question once they've come back on my last lot!

Do you happen to know if the regulations are in practice easier in HK?

Rgds

Damon

2:41 pm on Sep 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



hi,DamonHD:
as far as i know, the policy doesn't really cover Hongkong region.
3:21 pm on Sep 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi,

Thanks redstorm.

It's also not completely clear to me if HK-hosted servers are inside or outside the "Great Firewall".

I assume they would be outside.

Do you know?

Rgds

Damon

6:53 am on Sep 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi, Damon
I am sorry i can't answer you as i am not sure of this.:(
10:41 pm on Sep 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi,

My (SG-based) hosting company came back to me with answers on some of my questions, including:


There are only two main Telcos in China, China Telecom and China Net Com. One is responsible for the North and the other the South. Within China, the users are connected to their provincial telcos, before they connect to the National Backbone.

Rgds

Damon

9:00 am on Sep 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi,

As regards licences, my hosting company says:


Licenses are only needed if you intend to resell/provide your hosting services to end-users in China.

Rgds

Damon

11:39 pm on Sep 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator bill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Local law requires that sites hosted in China be registered with the authorities [webmasterworld.com]. You might want to ask them about that aspect as well.
3:52 pm on Sep 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi bill,

I am asking them explicitly to look at that thread...

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna give it a whirl now.

Thanks

Damon

2:21 am on Sep 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Hi DamonHD

For the benefits of a 'bit' faster site/s you may give away all economic/legal flexibility.

In order to control potential liabilities I would keep all server and financial related services outside of the country of operations.

Once you started shop this is hard to do, but a this looks like a fresh start take advantage of the possibilities.

Political/moral/ethical beliefs shift fast these days. Must stay on ur toes;-)

8:37 am on Sep 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi WIA,

Note that this will just be the 6th of my servers/mirrors for this domain (all the others being outside China), catering (rather over-catering for now!) to the approx 1% of my visitors from Beijing alone.

If someone gets nasty and tries to shut me down (which is a real risk, I agree, even though my site is pro-bono and politically neutral, it does mention "Tibet" and "Mongolia" for example as locations) then I will let that mirror go and not bother again, at least for a while.

It is a bit of a punt for me, but not a fatal blow if it goes wrong.

The hosting company, which has a lot more to lose than me I'd say given its business interests in China, doesn't seem uneasy.

Rgds

Damon

[edited by: DamonHD at 8:41 am (utc) on Sep. 25, 2006]

3:05 pm on Sep 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi,

I am ordering my Beijing hosting today.

For the record, I *am* having to get a licence, but the hosting company is applying for it on my behalf.

It did seem to need me to point them here at WW to realise that I really did need a licence!

Thanks folks and bill in particular!

Rgds

Damon

1:37 am on Sep 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator bill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Glad to hear things are progressing Damon. That's interesting about the licencing. You'd think that something like that would be automatic by now unless it's not being strictly enforced.
3:20 am on Oct 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



There are two type licenses of website in China.

ICP commercial license are only needed if you intend to resell/provide your hosting services to end-users or your contents are related with offical news, medical stuff, e-commerce, etc

If you want to get the commercial license, your company's registered capital must be above 1 million Yuan(RMB).

Another license is ICP personal llicense,which be get simply. you only submit your personal info to MII(Ministry of Information Industry).

But it's not strictly. I know that many sites should register ICP commercail license instead of personal license.

6:03 am on Oct 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator bill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Welcome to WebmasterWorld Gavins. Thanks for the information.

As I understand it:

China to close local websites if unregistered [webmasterworld.com]
In January 2005, a regulation was issued stating that all websites hosted inside China (not including those hosted outside China) must be registered or approved.
  • All commercial websites must be approved
  • All non-commercial websites must be registered
You can submit your website information to the Chinese Ministry of Information Industry here:
[miibeian.gov.cn...]
They say that you can obtain your registration or approval number within 20 days or so.

ICP commercial license are only needed if you intend to resell/provide your hosting services to end-users or your contents are related with official news, medical stuff, e-commerce, etc

It was my understanding that any commercial website would require registration. Are there cases where company owned and operated sites hosted in China would not need to be registered?
1:23 pm on Oct 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi,

In the view of my hosting company, my site is "artistic", which is fair. It's certainly not-for-profit, and and it provides free multimedia.

Thus, my site seems to fall within the scope of a "personal" site.

Rgds

Damon

9:40 am on Oct 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Yes, any website including commercial site would require registration.

But many commercial company, which is certainly for profit, simply register a non-commercial license, because the government of China is only sensitive to ideology.

All the sites related news, publication, education and health need to get a special license approved by the other ministry/bureau, such as The State Food and Drug Administration/Ministry of Health, General Administration of Press and Publication, The State Adminstration of Radio Film and Television, Ministry of Culture,etc.

The government connives that the small business company only get a non-commercial license. So, Damon's site is a "personal" site too. :)

[edited by: Gavins at 9:44 am (utc) on Oct. 5, 2006]

1:39 pm on Oct 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Have just read this thread, and being paranoid when it comes to the internet, it's made me worried!

I am hosted in Chongqin, organised by a Chinese hosting company with a US presence. I didn't know anything about registration, so did not ask for it.

On checking my whois info, it lists the company as "Sponsering Registrar" and also a numeric-cn "ROID" - is this all that's needed?

[added] It's non-commercial except for Adsense. [/added]

[edited by: HarryM at 1:41 pm (utc) on Oct. 11, 2006]

1:52 pm on Oct 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi,

Ask your hosting company to look at the thread that bill dug out for me:

[webmasterworld.com...]

since my (Asian!) hosting company assured me that I did not need a licence until I got them to read that!

Rgds

Damon

1:35 pm on Oct 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I'm first to this forums,and from China.
2:10 pm on Oct 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hello!

I'm sure that bill or Woz will properly say hello soon!

Rgds

Damon

Woz

10:56 pm on Oct 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member woz is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Ni Hao notebook520, Welcome to WebmasterWorld.

Do you have any experience with hosting in China?

Onya
Woz

(Thanks Damon)

7:03 am on Oct 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I have a non-commerce website, a local forum. It must be registerd and approved by both MII(Ministry of Information Industry)and Local Police that administrating internet security.
7:25 am on Oct 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi Y'All,

My Mumbai mirror went live yesterday, and hopefully my Beijing server will be available tomorrow. All very exciting!

Rgds

Damon

12:12 pm on Oct 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Beijing just went live...

Connectivity/bandwidth seems good so far.

Rgds

Damon

1:08 am on Oct 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator bill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Congrats DamonHD. Glad you got things sorted out. I was in China last week and the speed difference accessing locally hosted sites and those outside can be considerable. I'm waiting to hear back about quotes for server/hosting options now.

A lot of people seem to rent space at Shanghai Telecom which has acceptable speeds. I'm still waiting to hear about offers from the North. From the meetings I had a lot more people were recommending the Southern hosting options. We'll see how things turn out.

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