App to map external websites?

Need an app that creates an easy to read site map

[timware]

We are a Mac-based shop, but do have a Win 2000 box, and develop websites. We need an app that will spider an external website and create an easy-to-read site map that gives us an accurate assessment of the site's size, in terms of number of pages.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

Thanks!

Tim

[cgrantski]

Any of the tools that scrape a site for offline browsing will give you a list of all the pages on a site and plenty more. Try WinHTTrack. With a decently organized site that has clear URLs you can get a rough idea of organization from the directory structure.

A site map is another matter. Visio (top-tier version) says it does it but I've never seen anything but a mess come out of it. Since most sites have plenty of circular and crossed links it's difficult to take files and links and transform them into a tree or anything easy to read, either with a program or even a human trying to do the job. I've seen it done with multidimensional scaling techniques but couldn't even begin to afford the software to do it, much less what it takes to prep the data.

At my company we use big sheets of foam core, lots of pushpins, post-its, and string, printouts of screen shots, and a smart intern. It's educational to say the least. Good luck and if you find such a visualization tool sign us up!

[Receptional]

Others:

I like Freefind for creating a sitemap, as it is a hosted solution, so should be opk for mac users

I think anaconda does that as well.

[cgrantski]

Hmmm, Receptional's post makes me wonder if I misinterpreted the original request. "Site map" to me means a graphic representation of a site. Of course it's also a hierarchical text list of the content, which is much easier to do.

[timware]

Yes, that was what I was talking about. When a potential client asks me to develop a new website of a similar scale to their current site, I need a tool that will show me how many pages the site has and, ideally, the architecture of the site.

Hope this clarifies.

Tim

[AniKarenina]

File structure doesn't necessarily have anything to do with architecture, however--does it?

I can structure my files however I like and then link them up with whatever navigation I care to create in any old fashion. Certainly is easier to use file structure as a part of architecture, but not absolutely necessary. I only have three classes of pages in subdirectories on my (little) site and that's a recent development--I got sick of looking at all 102 pages in one directory.

Is scope something you can ask your client directly? It seems like this would be requisite information for defining the project and negotiating a fee, much less designing anything.

[timware]

I am using "site architecture" to mean directory structure. But regardless, I'm really just looking for a site-map-creating tool.

Yes, I *could* ask a potential client to provide this themselves but I'd rather do my own analysis. It puts less burden on a potential client and I'm confident that I *know* what the scale of the site is from my own analysis without relying on the analysis of someone else.

T

[AniKarenina]

Good points, T--makes you look better to the potential client when you know that material in advance.

I've only tried HTTrack for a site scrape; it can work fairly well depending... It's done fine for a few sites but fell down when I tried to get a site that was in frames.

Web Scraper Plus is an easily-located program you can download for free (probably a trial version of some kind) and has a high average user rating from the free downloads site I found it on. I also found an entire page of Mac-specific freeware & (cheap!) shareware programs that may be applicable--Google "Page Rippers Mac" and the top result has all kinds of options, just for Macs!

[timware]

Thank you! I'll check all this out & report back.

Tim