NEW BETA: Lots of New WebmasterWorld Changes LIVE!

Check it out, there's a lot of stuff to explore.

[incrediBILL]

Notice your menu, options and thread pages change today?

Note the control panel has moved to the RESOURCES menu.

You'll note the the menu name is now MY WEBMASTERWORLD which has some cool new stuff and lots of personalization. Like MY FORUMS DASHBOARD if you have any forums selected. The EDIT MY FORUMS on the bottom of the menu allows you to pick the forums. The dashboard still needs a little TLC, and you get emails from new threads currently but that will be optional soon. Also, the list of forums shows as MY FORUMS on the menu, which may be moving to a new location.

Also notice MY PROFILE, which takes you to your profile and you can EDIT directly from the profile now without going to the control panel, there's a link at the top if it's your profile to edit.

EDIT YOUR PROFILE! There's a ton of settings you can choose to let potential clients, employers, or just fellow readers know more about you, your skills and a whole lot more. Explore all the new profile options, there's a lot there!

Notice the new button at the top of each thread that toggles FOLLOW THREAD and FOLLOWING THREAD on and off and you can see all of these threads from MY FOLLOWED THREADS of the new MY WEBMASTERWORLD menu.

Also, all the buttons and pagination is at the top and bottom of each thread to make it easier.

More things coming, and the names of things may change from what I've just posted but that's where we're at today.

Let us know what you think and any bugs you might find.

BTW, we know there's still some things that need fixing here and there and you'll notice them getting fixed as the new changes are rolling out.

[lucy24]

The responsiveness needs tweaking. At my preferred monitor width I see:

Follow Thread .. Post Reply .. Post New Topic

centered below the message-body area, followed by

Forum Options

right-aligned immediately below these three, with no padding, so "Post New Topic" and "Forum Options" share a background. If I make the window narrower it eventually goes to

Follow Thread .. Post Reply

centered, as before, with "Post New Topic" dropping to be exactly below Follow Thread, while Forum Options remains right-aligned. Interestingly, if I go still narrower-- to what I assume is mobile-size-- everything reverts to being in line, only now all four items as a block are right-aligned rather than centered. At this point, it also becomes evident that the "Forum Options" box (the one with the dropdown arrow) is about two pixels shorter than the others.

Do most people on desktop monitors really set their browsers to a width of 1300+ ? That's how far I had to open out before the four options again went back to appearing on a single line. (I didn't actually count. My computer says my monitor is 1600x900 so I guessed.)

I don't see why it needs to be constrained to the width of the message area. There's no functional reason why the calculation can't include the full thread with (including the author sidebar, which is about 1/4 of the available space and would allow everything to be inline at most widths).

[Leosghost]

Could you make it so that one doesn't have to "allow Google" ( in no script ) in order to use style tags and edit or report etc..
( it is kinda like having the G+ button back )..

[incrediBILL]

Could you make it so that one doesn't have to "allow Google" ( in no script ) in order to use style tags and edit or report etc..

You mean because we use the Google AJAX APIs?

Probably not as the whole world has those preloaded and cached from using google, adsense, etc. and it just speeds it up and they're definitely a reliable source to load from and it also speeds up the load because of that stupid browser limit of concurrent loads per domain, the same reason people use different image servers.

I hate to say it, but the majority of the people don't have adverse reactions to Google and they don't go into anaphylactic shock when it's used. The majority of webmasters use this very same link, and being WebmasterWorld we can't actually know what other webmasters are dealing with unless we use the very same libraries and tools that the rest of the world uses.

While I understand your concerns, we should be using Google analytics, Google APIs and every other service including Google AdSense that the rest of the webmasters use so we know what issues and problems arise from the use of those services, otherwise we're not well suited to answer the myriad of questions that arise from others that use those same things.

Basically, if WebmasterWorld doesn't move fully into the 21st century of webmastering, we're just talking the talk but not walking the walk and until we're doing it all, we're just giving people lip service for all the questions they have because we have no direct knowledge at WebmasterWorld itself.

WebmasterWorld should have all the social media links for FB, Twitter, G+, etc. and we should have some advertising media, on the non-members at a minimum, and using all the latest libraries, CDNs, etc. etc. so we're fully versed in what's going on in the real world.

Otherwise, we're just an ancient relic that only other ancient relics want to use.

We need to lead the pack in the latest bleeding edge technology including OpenAuth logins so that people using Facebook, Twitter, etc. can join the conversation without having to register.

I know it's probably not popular with everyone and not going to make everyone happy, but quoting Star Trek 3, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Does that make any sense?

We're not trying to alienate anyone but we need to address the needs of the modern webmaster and if we're not being a modern webmaster at a minimum then we're obsolete and useless to the masses.

I've been on the bleeding edge since I first got a TRS-80 Model I, all the early PCs and clones, DR Gem, Win 2.x, cell phones in '91 and things you may not remember or ever hear of, but were not even talking about that, we're just talking about doing what the majority of webmasters do today which will make WebmasterWorld relevant in a quickly changing landscape.

Hell, just the things I've encountered with Perl, Bootstrap, jQuery and JavaScript and site migration in the last couple of months are enough to answer many questions for months to come, if only people using all those things in a stack came to WebmasterWorld to answer the questions. I have a wealth of current and modern information just waiting for the right person to ask the question which is where we need to be.

We can't rest our laurels on the original post by Brett ( [webmasterworld.com...] ) as it's been many years, the web has changed a lot, that doc was out of date and so was WebmasterWorld in some mind blowing ways that have mostly been corrected.

Let's face it, we're not the only webmaster forum out there but WebmasterWorld was further out of touch than most of them and we're trying to reverse that so we're the most relevant that others are trying to catch, instead of us trying to follow.

Basically we have to use Google services to be relevant.

So strap in, brace yourself, and enjoy the ride ;)

[Leosghost]

I just block the G stuff ( and don't have it in "cache" ) and have the WebmasterWorld style codes saved to desktop as a reference..
The "blocking" means that I can't edit /report unless I "unblock"..So I rarely edit ( means the typos stay ;) and the reporting doesn't happen..I know that most people ( including webmasters ) in the U.S.A don't block G APIs..more do in the "rest of the world", where we are more concerned by G tracking us..and in particular in fora such as these where we discuss G..

"Open auth" many of us will never use due to the tracking issues..( why should a handfull of ad driven corps ) know where I am a member and what I say )..likewise if the "social buttons" come back many of us will block all of them, many may have already voted on such issues with their feet ( might explain in part the "quietness" here nowadays, remarked upon by many old time and senior members )..depends on the audience that you are looking for.."the masses" ( who are signed up to every ad pushing tracking system that there is , and who are the "targets" of most of the "pro webmasters" who have registered here over the years, or the "pro webmasters" themselves ( who see the social and tracking sites as a merely possible venue for their marketing in addition to their websites ) and who do not do not consider being tracked as part of the skill set, nor in any way desirable..

Apart from the calls to 3rd party scripts ..you have ( as I've said in previous threads on the makeover ) done a fantastic job..kudos :)..

We're not trying to alienate anyone

Might be worth your while discussing this in a "seniors" thread, just in case ?
It is easier to make use of 3rd party script calls and APIs etc, but it isn't impossible to make edit buttons and style codes work entirely "in house"..plus G have a habit of suddenly abandoning things that many depend(ed) upon..unlikely in this case..but allowing site user functionality to be dependent on an outside entity is normaly something we all advise against..unless one's site is already serving ads from said 3rd parties anyway..

At least ( for now ? ) to read and post ( without edit and report etc ) on WebmasterWorld, one only has to "authorise" WebmasterWorld..

[Samizdata]

We're not trying to alienate anyone

My WebmasterWorld
My Profile
My Inbox
My Profile
My Recent Threads
My Followed Threads

My Computer
My Documents
My Network Places
My Little Pony

My understanding was that WebmasterWorld was being modernised.

My apologies for not appreciating this horrible retro formulation.

My python boot is too tight.

...

[Leosghost]

Noticed..what was previously the "drop flag" button, now below this "quick reply" box says "Follow thread"..But in the "Control Panel"..the link is still to threads "flagged"..and not to threads "followed"..that "mismatch" may confuse non "English as first language" members..

The "tool tip" that appears "on hover" of the "post reply" button is wrong..it is currently showing the same tooltip as the "post new topic" button to the right of it..both "tool tips" say "start new discussion in this forum"..

Same applies to the buttons at the top..

[Leosghost]

BTW..I would have expected this thread in WebmasterWorld community [webmasterworld.com...] ( as it is about "in here" at WebmasterWorld ), rather than in "community building", ( which has always been about communities "out there", outside of WebmasterWorld ), those who don't watch the "recent posts" page ( but who only watch a "selected" set of fora here ) may miss it, up 'til now all threads about changes here have been in community chest, and even then some members seem to have missed them..

[incrediBILL]

re: which community I posted in, OOPS! was one of those running out the door posting sort of things and I clicked the wrong one. I can always move it if it needs to be moved.

My understanding was that WebmasterWorld was being modernised.

The use of MY is hardly retro just because Windows does it. I'm open to other nomenclature if you have something you think is better but we're trying to make it sound more personalized and not just "inbox, threads, profile" which doesn't have that same personal feel to it.

Some social media sites use YOUR instead of MY and I'm not sure which most prefer, but MY is more personal and YOUR sounds more business-like to me, almost accusatory in YOUR this and YOUR that.so I fall on the side of MY if it were up for a vote.

That's why it's called BETA, so all criticism is welcome and so are suggestions that solve those criticisms.

Let's get it out in the air now and fix it before it's cast in stone.

FWIW, that was my first attempt but some of the old stuff really sounded dated so we're at least one decade ahead of where it was LOL

I'm not invested in these names yet, but I do like the way it feels when I look for "my forums" or "my dashboard" as it seems to feel like it's something that's MINE vs. just part of the website as they're "my followed threads!" as i picked them, they're mine mine mine all mine and you can't have them ;)

Seriously, you prefer dropping the my so then what's the drop menu called as just WebmasterWorld doesn't play and control panel is what I'm trying to get away from.

SOUND OFF! :)

"Open auth" many of us will never use due to the tracking issues.

It's not for those of use already using the site.

It's for those from Twitter or Facebook that have never used WebmasterWorld before that read links to our site that have a lengthy registration standing between them and the ability to participate in a WebmasterWorld thread.

That's why people don't participate in as many blogs and forums anymore which is why OpenAuth was created so that they could have easy 1 click access to other 3rd party sites to participate with a single authorized click.

Whether it works or not, we'll see, as it's just a grand experiment, but if successful we may find ourselves discussing topics with many that frequent our site daily but only lurk for whatever reason.

I've had some people tell me they don't register at "little" sites like WebmasterWorld as they fear they'll end up on some spam list and their inbox will immediate become flooded by all the web marketers that haunt our halls. It's a bit paranoid as WebmasterWorld is hardly a little site, but I can see why people don't want to register all over the place. A single point of registration secures their personal information which is why we're looking into;

Got a better CDN with more bandwidth and more servers for jQuery?

That's why many pick Google besides the other reasons I mentioned before, they have more peering than Peer1 as far as I can tell but I'll try any CDN that seems to perform well globally but remember it also needs global performance which has cause problems with some social media links in the past which is why I landed on Google.

Another reason I picked a CDN is they keep the scripts updated for bug fixes and I don't have to download and maintain it locally as it's done at the source.

Suggestions?

[Leosghost]

You moved the thread while I was typing a reply..had to type it all again as FF doesnt keep replies in "cache"..

Got a better CDN with more bandwidth and more servers for jQuery?

That's why many pick Google besides the other reasons I mentioned before, they have more peering than Peer1 as far as I can tell but I'll try any CDN that seems to perform well globally but remember it also needs global performance which has cause problems with some social media links in the past which is why I landed on Google.

Another reason I picked a CDN is they keep the scripts updated for bug fixes and I don't have to download and maintain it locally as it's done at the source.

Suggestions?

Nope..G's CDN ( if that is the way you want to go ) is reliable when most others fail..yesterday ( 12.06.2015 ) around 12 pm Paris time, sites hosted on the left side of the pond kept "timing out" ( WebmasterWorld included )..G however ( dot com, adservers the whole works ) ran as fast as usual, due to their infrastructure..For what you want you, made the best choice of CDN..

The API calls to G are an inconvenience ( can't edit etc ) not a "dealbreaker" ;)

[Leosghost]

The "social" ( spyware tracking ) G+, Facebook etc buttons, which are thankfully not around anymore, when one is on a fixed IP, are an inhibitor to speaking freely, especially when one may have other relationships with the sites which own the social (spyware ) buttons in question..Way too easy for G or Facebook etc to kown precisely who is posting what , at what time, and reading what, at what time, possiibly about G or Facebook etc..On any site with UGC, such as fora, those buttons are, IMO ( and that of very many others ) a betrayal of trust with the site's users and members, amny of whom (even amongst webmasters ) will not realise that the "social"( spyware ) buttons allow monitoring by the ad corps and their associates of what the individuals read, and in particular post, online..

Any site which thinks of places them on it's pages, ( especially UGC sites ) should think long and hard about the relevance and the opting in of their readers and posters to precise tracking by the buttons, and hopefully decide against their deployment..they do alienate those who understand their true purpose..

[tangor]

Could you make it so that one doesn't have to "allow Google" ( in no script ) in order to use style tags and edit or report etc..

As a noscript/no js kind of guy, and an avid user of this community (for years), I'm not bucking the flow or glow of the new changes to WW. In fact, I like them a lot!

Yet, I still travel locked down so .... and this for for the other kiddies who are like me in that regard, here's how it ALL WORKS FOR ME, and I get to stay locked down, get the responsive, and STILL use the website, TOO!

Reading and writing posts is great. No problems. My WebmasterWorld (old control panel) works fine. My prefs, etc, okay dokey. (BTW, love the Active Post customization! That was long over due and well-done!)

When I do a reply and hit PREVIEW to access the fancy formatting, etc, works great.... but here's where it goes south:

If I need to EDIT (owner edit) after the message has posted, the visible drop down won't work. So:

In FF, click view/page style/no style, find my message and (since there is no styling) click Edit Message, then back to browser Wiew./Page Style./Basic Page Style and I'm back in business with the familiary Edit/Preview, complete with all the styling codes, et al. When done I can click Preview to check (all works fine) or Submit and go about my business. A few extra steps for an edit, but what the hey, job done and no JS involved!

Do the same for any of the Drop Down Menu Functions (all become (list) clickable options in NO STYLE from the BROWSER.

This is a bit more work for the nocscript/no js kiddies, but what the heck? As far as everyone else is concerned we're the ones out of step. Just revealing WW works fine and dandy and there's not a place I can't go, or a function I can't access, though it is me that mas to make that effort. And, as I said at the top, the new responsive design is way better than previous and, as a fellow with vision problems, I can zoom scroll to whatever size I NEED and be a happy camper.

As others have noted, however, those touch screen size buttons zip all over the place regardless of zoom or window size, and sometimes eat of a love of screen real estate. A query: Are ONE WORD buttons too small for the touch screen/phone paradigm? If not, then consider that change as it would make a grand visual improvement. Maybe we need to upgrade people with a special size touch screen finger so we can get nice, orderly layouts. :)

This commentary is specific for the noscripters/no js guys and gals. The googleapis jquery might be the neatest thing since sliced bread, but some of us are still security freaks and will shy away from JS of any kind UNLESS we know the source.... and, no disrespect to incrediBill and the gang, there are just some things I won't accept at face value... .but that's JUST ME!

[Leosghost]

Works a treat Tangor :) I hadn't thought to try that way..( distractedly busy ATM )..thanks :)

[lucy24]

if WebmasterWorld doesn't move fully into the 21st century
<snip>
We need to lead the pack in the latest bleeding edge

:: sitting on hands ::

[tangor]

Oddly enough.... bleeding edge does not mean do what others do... it means lead the way. :)

Just the other side of the coin. Or:

How to do it WITHOUT all the third party.

A comment, not a suggestion or rant. The old saw is there's always another way to skin a cat.

[bird]

Does that make any sense?
...
Basically we have to use Google services to be relevant

No, that doesn't make any sense at all.
I expect the people who answer questions about specific technologies to have access to actively used installations of those technologies elsewhere. Deploying an otherwise unneeded technology on this site itself does not make anything or anyone "more relevant", and does not enable anyone to offer better help about it.
Using stuff that specifically helps the site work better and more user friendly does make sense, of course. ;)

where we are more concerned by G tracking us..and in particular in fora such as these where we discuss G..

Set your browser (or suitable extensions if the functionality is not built in) to send no referrers and no cookies to third party sites. That way you can access all the API repositories without them being able to track your actual activities. All they will know is "this IP has loaded that API file", but that will not tell them which sites you visited to trigger the loading.
I have been using AdBlock, NoScript, and RefControl myself for a long time now, and found that a well coordinated configuration between them allows me to protect my privacy without having to sacrifice a lot of functionality.

[Samizdata]

The use of MY is hardly retro just because Windows does it.

My recollection is that Windows dropped it long ago, starting with Vista.

My opinion (which you are free to ignore) is that it was always a ghastly construct which, far from making things "more personal", reeks of calculated corporate condescension while simultaneously debasing the English language.

control panel is what I'm trying to get away from

My preference would be for "Preferences".

...

[lucy24]

If a list contains five items, of which four are called "My suchandsuch"-- or "Your suchandsuch" or "User's suchandsuch" or "Personal suchandsuch" or etcetera-- it comes across as stylistically clunky.

[incrediBILL]

Lucy, how zoomed in are you or what resolution where you see the button a line under?

I actually changed it to be a wider space to avoid that.

[incrediBILL]

The my madness is gone off the My WebmasterWorld menu, it got old the next day.

If you have a better name for My WebmasterWorld let's hear it as I'm coming up blank for that menu at the moment but I think that's OK as long as the whole thing doesn't say it.

[tangor]

I like OPTIONS or PREFERENCES (with OPTIONS the top choice because it is SHORTER).

The Other Opti9on is "SETUP", but I don't like that as much.

[tangor]

And yet, there are a few others such as

MENU
CUSTOMIZE

[tangor]

While at it.... I'm not thrilled that REPORT MESSAGE is hidden (for the noscript/no js guys and gals) as that is the only option under that message number drop down... and yet is a very useful tool for the folks (seniors in particular) to help keep the community clear of unwanted.

Also, Forum Options is actual a TOOL choice (though Options is an okay term to use)

I'm looking to get all four of those "top" blue background buttons as SHORT as possible.

icrediBill, you asked lucy24 re: zoom, etc, I'll pass on mine (which is for the visually impaired)

24" 1920x1080, full screen window, zoomed in until just the right edge of the right sidebar "fits". OR, same everything else, but window only as wide as the MESSAGE (ie, the sidebar disappears to bottom) AND, oddly enough, when I do t hat, the blue buttons all line up like little soldiers and look very nice. :) Go figure.....

But that does mean all the right side stuff is gone to the bottom.

Just how it looks to me in Rio Linda. :)

[Leosghost]

Preferences..
Customize* conjures up images of flame licks, pinstripes, airbrush artwork and whitewalls etc..

*one of my many businesses in the past..
WebmasterWorld with sparkle gif background and chrome bitmap fonts ;) retro bling ;)..and I'll still block the badges..;)

[tangor]

Made me laugh! (oh the memories!)

Made me think of a shorter word that's not commonly used, but fits the bill and this after a girl called. Starts with a "p" and ends in "imp". That would do the trick! :)

Okay, kiddies. I'll do my time in punatory at the punitentary.

[lucy24]

Well, I'm not going to fetch out the ruler, but the computer says the overall monitor width is 1600 so my ordinary browser window is, at a guess, 1000 or so. The four buttons don't line up until I open out to around 1300. Maybe it's 1200, since that's the cutoff in the @media rules.

I'm currently in Camino but I took a quick detour to Safari. Horizontally it's identical. (The buttons are prettier, though.)

Can I assume it's bootstrap's fault that there are sixty-seven (67) separate @media statements even though they only define four or five different sizes?

classes in HTML in relevant sector of page:
col-md-4
col-sm-4
pull-left
pull-right
col-md-8
col-sm-8
i.e.

@media|pull-(left|right)|col-(md|sm)-[48]

(I'm searching for any of these definitions in the CSS within an @media rule).

I think it's here:

@media (min-width:992px){
...
.col-md-8{width:66.66666667%}
.col-md-4{width:33.33333333%}

Uh-oh, I would never do that. A combined total 100% doesn't leave room for padding, borders, and any-and-all assorted other stray pixels. Something's got to give.

Then again it may be the float. Different part of the CSS. Show me an !important and I'll show you a cascading conflict.

[lucy24]

Incidentally... I'd like to see a few pixels of padding between the thread content (including Quick Reply box when present) and the Follow/Post buttons. It is only a matter of time before I start clicking Follow Thread by mistake for Preview.

[incrediBILL]

Not sure what I can do re: buttons when the screen gets too small except combine them just like the FORUM OPTIONS into THREAD OPTIONS as 2 buttons will never cause a problem then I can add as many thread options as I want under that button and there are a few still not on the page that could be. Some were deprecated features, some were very niche, will have to figure it out.

I like OPTIONS or PREFERENCES (with OPTIONS the top choice because it is SHORTER).

That menu isn't options or preferences, it's a list of MY STUFF, the settings are still in the control panel.
Control panel made no sense for looking at recent posts, followed posts, etc. it's MY stuff, not settings

I'm not thrilled that REPORT MESSAGE is hidden (for the noscript/no js guys

Sorry, the lack of javascript is such a minority, although a vocal one, but the majority of the world runs javascript. All the moms, pops, kids, except a few techies that don't like it not only love it but embrace it and demand more of it. Facebook is barely usable without javascript and some sites just flat kick the the page and go "THIS PAGE REQUIRES JAVASCRIPT" otherwise you get nothing so we didn't go that extreme, but we're heading deeper into javascript, not less.

What people want are their web pages to behave just like desktop computer software and the only want to accomplish this is, at this time, is lots of javascript and jQuery at the helm. Having been a decades long Windows programmer, the combination of jQuery and Bootstrap pretty much gives me everything I needed to build web pages comparable to Windows programs with few exceptions.

It's the way of the world.

Trying to disable it and hide it isn't the solution, making it secure is the solution and it's pretty secure for the most part.

The only time javascript becomes a problem is using 3rd party ad networks or flaky CDNs and we're doing none of the above.

[tangor]

Don't worry about me and jquery/ajax. I'll be here as long as the site degrades graecefully (as it does now) for the IMPORTANT functions easily available (NEW, REPY, REPORT, FLAG(or Follow). Majority rarely use most of the others (I'm sure the logs will reveal which functions are most commonly used.

Trying to disable it and hide it isn't the solution, making it secure is the solution and it's pretty secure for the most part.

That's not the same as saying it IS secure. :) No argument, just a reality that once control is out of "your" hands (meaning anyone) then there's always that risk. Are the rewards worth it? Perhaps. ONCE AGAIN, I am NOT asking for any changes in that regard, merely noting what is visible and works for those like me.

If one is visiting with a table or phone, then there is absolutely no comment as those devices require such to even function. Desktop users, however, still have other options and some may chose to exercise them--- and it is up to them to made that decision to either allow or disallow, or just stop coming back, and that is as it should be.

[Fotiman]

@lucy24

Uh-oh, I would never do that. A combined total 100% doesn't leave room for padding, borders, and any-and-all assorted other stray pixels. Something's got to give.

Unless, of course, you're also doing box-sizing: border-box (which I highly recommend). :)