Forum Moderators: open
I take this to mean that if I want to quote someone else's e-mail if I have a question, that is against the rules.
If this understanding is correct (and I'm glad I'm quoting a rule and not an e-mail, here) how does one quote another's e-mail to post a question?
Further, I just tried the Search feature and was told I don't have permission to do a search. Another "rule" violation, perhaps? I've been a member for less than hour and am already tangled in my own underwear. :)
Some enlightenment or direction would be appreciated. Thanks.
John
Yeah, email quotes are not allowed. Paraphrasing short sections is pretty often allowed though. With the emphasis on short. I'm not sure, but it may be a copyright issue.
Anyhow, paraphrasing usually works fairly well for getting the message or concept across.
As far as searching here goes, you're better off using a site search on Google.
site:www.webmasterworld.com +(whatever you're looking for)
That usually works really well.
Thanks for the quick feedback. I can't believe that its a copyright issue as that would fall under the fair use allowance. But, still to not allow a quote from another's e-mail in a discussion forum doesn't seem to make much sense. I must be missing something here.
How, for example, would I respond to someone who posted some code asking "please help me find the error"? It would make sense to quote the posted code with the correction highlighted, wouldn't it? How can one "paraphrase" code to make the answer useful?
Is this quoting of e-mail text much of a problem in this forum? So much so, that it had to be "outlawed" in a formal rule? How curious.
John
Email quotes are not allowed for copyright and privacy reasons. Information included in emails, especially at a corporate level, can be highly sensitive and proprietry, and can result in C&Ds if posted. Hence the rule which must be applied to all emails regardless.
Onya
Woz
"How, for example, would I respond to someone who posted some code asking "please help me find the error"?"
Or this....
How, for example, would I respond to someone who posted some code asking "please help me find the error"?
Although about the only place you'll see large sections quoted is for things like code fixes, as you mentioned in your comment.
But if I opened my email on my machine and found that same question from someone in an email to me, I wouldn't be allowed to post it here. I'd have to paraphrase it.
If I'm wrong about this, one of the admins or mods will probably post a correction.
AHHA! See, there's Woz joining in! I'm just too slow.
[edited by: ken_b at 3:30 am (utc) on April 25, 2005]
Email correspondence can be (and often is) privileged or confidential information, often meant only for the recipient to see and not any other or unauthorized people. It can be confidential company or individuals' information, things like trade secrets or proprietary techniques or processes, and/or other matters covered by non-disclosure agreements - but not necessary to be, some things are private without a specific NDA.
If the written consent is gotten from all parties connected and concerned it's a different issue, but I seriously doubt that there's very much that warrants that kind of protracted interchange and effort in getting written permission, just to quote a bit of an email.
Okay. I'm new here and don't mean to raise a ruckus, I just wanted to understand a particular rule. However, none of the answers given here, seem make much sense in a technical forum. I don't much care if someone, foolishly perhaps, includes his/her company secrets in their posted e-mail, nor would I be much interested in re-quoting it.
However, to respond to someone's posting, its not uncommon to quote from their e-mail to better explain your response. If its already posted, then its no longer "secret" and the copyright fair use rule allows me to quote parts of it.
Ken_B's answer saying that if he'd opened his e-mail and found some text, he'd not be able to quote it in response a)doesn't seem to make sense, and b) sounds like a good example of a straightjacket-rule run amok. (BTW, this would have been a wonderful place to have been able to quote Ken_B's actual response instead of having to paraphrase it.)
Is it perhaps the case that this rule is badly written or crafted and I'm missing its true intent because its so opaque? Is WebMaster.com perhaps saying that if I post "The Secret Formula for Product X" from my company, someone else shouldn't quote it because its a trade secret? That, I'd understand, but then it'd be silly, as it was already published, though probably illegally.
C'mon, now, how do we techies respond to someone's request to fix their bad code, for example? You can't paraphrase code, you have to quote it to make the answer understandable. ("Oh yes, to fix your posted code, just add a semicolon and you're fine...").
How also, do you make for an easier understanding of the give and take between respondents when you can't quote relevant sections of their e-mail?
I'm sorry if I've dragged this out, but I now have the feeling that we must be talking at cross purposes and I've just missed the true meaning of Rule #9. I will try to not quote from other's e-mails in this forum.
John --
The rule you are referring to deals with e-mail correspondence outside of the forum context. (i.e., mail between you and Company X) The posting of code examples is generally acceptable, but if you are in doubt you may contact an Admin or the Moderator of the forum in question.
Ken_B's answer saying that if he'd opened his e-mail and found some text, he'd not be able to quote it in response a)doesn't seem to make sense, and b) sounds like a good example of a straightjacket-rule run amok. (BTW, this would have been a wonderful place to have been able to quote Ken_B's actual response instead of having to paraphrase it.)
Quoting Ken is fine. You are referring to posts, which you are able to freely quote. E-mails, however, are from name@site.com to you@yoursite.com, and that is what you can't quote on here. Anything posted on WW can be quoted, and you seem to have confused e-mails with posts on a message board.
Can I quote you on that? :)
Thank you for clearing that up, for me! Somehow, I didn't think that was what Rule #9 meant or even was its intention.
However, point of order; the stated rule should be made more clear, because it states: "Email excerpts of ANY type or length are not allowed on WebmasterWorld. There are no exceptions to this rule" and does not differentiate between "posts" and "e-mails" (whether sent privately or posted to the public), hence my confusion.
Now, this may have seemed silly ("...just how many techies *can* dance on the head of pin?..."), but I noticed from the comments that there are others who are seemingly just as confused.
As an aside, BTW, just how would anyone from this site control or even deign to control what is quoted or not quoted in e-mail between two private individuals? :)
Thanks again, all...just trying to be a good netizen and new member of this group -- sorry to have rocked any boats.
John --
Welcome to WebmasterWorld, JohnWebMstr. Quoting IN private emails is fine - quoting FROM them here in the forum is problematic. Such posts are edited or deleted when they occur. One major category of emails that people want to post is the business communication email, e.g., "I just got this email from Google" or "my ISP just sent me this message". These may well be privileged communications, hence the restriction on quoting.
Paraphrasing is usually the easy answer. So, instead of posting the letter from an ISP, saying, "My ISP just canceled my service, he said because I was sending out spam." will work just as well.
Code snippets aren't really an issue.
You can quote whatever you want in an email to another person. Whether you are violating any laws, confidentiality agreements, etc. would be your problem.
But when you post private correspondence (email) in a public forum (WebmasterWorld), you are opening the forum owner up to liability. A snippet from an email that may seem insignificant to you might be very significant to the person who sees their private message posted on the Web.
Hope this helps clears it up and doesn't just muddy the water more.
By the way, the rule does say "e-mails", not "posts," and I think the difference is quite clear.
>I've been a member for less than hour and am already tangled in my own underwear.
Not sure we can help with that...;)
Thanks for the reference link. If, "...We can't include email correspondences in posts..." had been written into the rule (along with some reasons why), it would have made more sense and made it more clear.
I know the difference between e-mails and posts, of course, however the rule talked about "e-mails" as the source material, but didn't seem to make clear that one couldn't quote from other posts. Adding the "why" is often helpful in understanding these things. The listing from the link you supplied was very helpful and made sense.
As a long time manager, I've long since learned the value of having a strong technical writing team on my staff and have been very greatful for their vetting of technical documents for projects before they go out the door to customers. They've also trained me to be very careful of these sorts of things when I see 'em, too. Hence this rather verbose and drawn out tempest-in-a-teapot. :)
So far, if this is an example of the culture of this forum, I'm very impressed in the way an honest question is handled by the group. Thanks for not just "shouting me down" or responding with flames. Its always refreshing to deal with professionals. I hope to be able to learn a lot from WW and its many contributors.
John --
How 'bout firing up a strong speeling team. ;)
I figure it' cos reasonably polite iconoclasts are preferable to rude trolls ..then again I may be "pushing my luck" ;)...sometimes ...;)..
My speeling suits me just fine ...and anyway it's my keyboards fault ..Brett has the same problem ...But he can write perl and I can't ( be bothered ;).
edited to remove potential target for innuendo ..macguru is never far away ;)..n'est ce pas V
Nope. They just made me read and think about the stuff. They knew my speeling was a hopeless case.
It was a nice balance in manager / staff relationships: they'd yell and I'd cringe. As long as they were right, I looked great..uh, ful. :)
John --
(This is a fun group!)
JohnWebMstr...Hi..etc ..
Here in local can be cute ..but remember to wipe your feet and bow when you enter "mod rewrite territory"...or we might lose "him" [webmasterworld.com] to some other tribe ..( "him" rhymes )
edited multiple times by self ..usual reason.. keyboard ;)
