Forum Moderators: LifeinAsia

Message Too Old, No Replies

Performance Clauses

         

jbensous

4:06 pm on Jun 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am about to wrap up my first propsal/contract with a major client. I have had other clients before but none to this magnitude and this client requested a performance clause in the proposal. I haven't ever had a client ask for this. Can someone please excuse this dumb question and tell me what it is I need to write for that or what it is they are looking for?

Thanks so much!

Jenna

edit_g

4:13 pm on Jun 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I'm on this sort of deal with one client and it is in the format "search engine traffic up by 5% (or whatever) over a period of 5 months" or similar. Guaranteeing 20 top 10 placements and the like is risky and foolhardy IMHO.

agerhart

4:13 pm on Jun 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



performance clause

Sounds like they want a guarantee.

I agree with edit_g.....if you must add this clause, go with traffic increases, percentages, etc.

edit_g

4:15 pm on Jun 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Sounds like they want a guarantee.

I'm quite new to this but IMO if clients don't get a % increase in SE traffic over a good period of time then someone isn't doing their job. You just have to go for an achievable and individually configured figure.

jbensous

4:30 pm on Jun 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am building them an e-commerce site. Shopping cart, doing all graphics, its over 200 pages, and they also want flash incorporated as well. Then there is the site optimization and search engine placement i will do as well as setting up a forum for them and a mailing list.

Should my performance clause only include traffic guarantees? Somehow I think they want more. Is this something where I say I will have your site done by this date. YOu give me this and I do that. And if I dont then you dont have to pay me final payment or something, or rather i dont get paid for going over estimated timeline?

edit_g

4:36 pm on Jun 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



or rather i dont get paid for going over estimated timeline?

You could try something like this - if you're doing the whole website. You could also do formum sign up's and new subscribers etc. I'd be scared of doing a whole site to some sort of guarantee though.

glengara

5:00 pm on Jun 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Jbensous, you sound like a Renaissance Man ;-)
I'd try to seperate the design/SEO performance clauses, as SEO can take some time to kick in.

webwoman

9:37 pm on Jun 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



It sounds like you're not sure exactly which aspect of 'performance' they are talking about. Why don't you just ask them - you can do this without appearing stupid. I know because I do it all the time (ask, not appear stupid - tho I do a fair amount of that as well). Terminology crosses industries and 'performance clause' means one thing in seo and another to the Marketing Department who pays you from their budget. Get it clarified before you wind up making promises you don't need to make :)

martinibuster

10:42 pm on Jun 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I don't do performance clauses.

Now, I'm not saying that all those who guarantee positions are crooked, but I find that most crooked seo's guarantee positions.

The reality is: You can't guarantee the outcome of something that depends on a third party you don't have control over.

What you can guarantee is that you will optimize the site according to commonly accepted practices known to help a web site get indexed properly.

That's it.

Robert Charlton

6:02 am on Jun 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



jb - webwoman is making a very good point. No telling what they're concerned about, and from the length of the list you provided of what you're doing for them, it may well be that SEO is low on their list of concerns. They may be more interested that the shopping cart isn't going to drop transactions or add things up wrong or forget to put in shipping charges.

In any event, I wouldn't make any promises regarding rankings. I think the guys who do make such promises are optimizing for long phrases like "purple xylophones tazmania" that aren't going to pull in a lot of traffic anyway.

It's also possible that you might not be able to make any promises regarding increases in traffic. This might be a new site, where there's no traffic base to increase. If it's an existing site, chances are very good that traffic has never been measured properly in the first place. It usually takes some explaining for a client to understand why SEO guarantees aren't possible, but I've found that most do eventually get the point.

I guarantee best efforts and point to my track record.

fathom

6:45 am on Jun 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I am about to wrap up my first propsal/contract with a major client. I have had other clients before but none to this magnitude and this client requested a performance clause in the proposal. I haven't ever had a client ask for this. Can someone please excuse this dumb question and tell me what it is I need to write for that or what it is they are looking for?

Sounds like they want a guarantee.

Not really... almost all large organizations want a performance clause and the trickle down to medium and even small profitable businesses where the owner/contact is business savvy would need this.

It is not really a guarantee on strategy performance or "fruition" but more to work productivity. (obviously some do want GUARANTEES) but possibly not what they are looking for.

For myself I do not guarantee ranks, clicks, visitation, leads or sales conversions, what I do provide is a "continuous increase in performance whether that be all >ranks, clicks, visitation, leads or sales conversions > or one.

At the point where stagnation occurs ongoing fees are reduced to a maintenance fee > to maintain that level achieve.

If the upward trend starts again > the fees revert back to performance.

I also provide a non-performance clause that indicates if over three consecutive months if trends on all continue to decline (an agreed percentage) My services are no longer effective and the client has the option to cancel the contract or withhold all fees until a performance curve is regained.

Client satisfaction is the most important thing to retention.

<added> I should note that disclaimers to the above are many > such as known seasonal trends and the client must disclose all known, "Act of God", "terrorist/war trend" (recently added) and industry, region, market specific ones where economic downturn is the root cause > not my work product > recently add example: SARS for Toronto and Canadian tourism.

In any case a contract must be a living document so to protect you and the client.</added>

jbensous

7:37 am on Jun 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks you guys! I wrote something like this ::

7.2 Deliverables

my company will deliver a turn-key website to the client on or before XX Date. This will include the following :

·All web pages and graphics will be burned on a CD and physically delivered to their place of business.
·All Quality Assurance tests will be complete.
·All shopping cart administration and setup will be complete and activated.
·All website optimization will be in place and administered.

Upon completion of this project, XYZ Coompany will issue the last payment, XX date in the amount described in the Invoicing and Payment section of this document. Once the site is active, the Website Maintenance Plan, as described in this document, will begin.

7.3 Delays

XYZ Company must deliver all necessary materials/information to my company in the designated time frames. My company will not be responsible for any delays due to late delivery of materials/information required from XYZ Company, nor any delays caused by server issues with the client’s host provider.

Any delays resulting on behalf of my company will be compensated in price reduction on final bill, to be determined based on time and severity of delay.

I didnt even go into SEO or any of that. If they want that then they will have to be more specific with their request and what it is they are looking for in this clause.

I do not feel I need to make a guarantee on their traffic, after all, I cannot control that..... I can only optimize their site to its fullest potential..... and increased hits does not necessarily mean increased sales.

They actually has a company come in and say they woud give them a lower price going in, and that they would guarantee them increased sales and hits, but they had to be given a percentage of all the products sold thereafter.

The company CFO thought that to be quite amusing. I just felt sick.....

fathom

12:33 pm on Jun 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Some constructive feedback > write in the third person for contracts and proposals.

Either formal company name "Microsoft will deliver...", or if a person - "Mr. Brown will deliver...",

·All Quality Assurance tests will be complete.

My first question (if this was coming to me... like what?

In addition, (assuming not previously spelled out) deliverable should be explicit > vague deliverables such as "all website optimization will be in place and administered"... can be 500 keywords added to a Meta Keyword tag. I assume this is discussed previously but if not due consideration needs to be given... vague protects no-one > not you, not them.

7.3 Delays

XYZ Company must deliver all necessary materials/information to my company in the designated time frames. My company will not be responsible for any delays due to late delivery of materials/information required from XYZ Company, nor any delays caused by server issues with the client’s host provider.

Any delays resulting on behalf of my company will be compensated in price reduction on final bill, to be determined based on time and severity of delay.

Two comments (other than use third person again) > you have precisely spelled out what occurs when you are delayed. Although you indicate their responsiblity for "their delay" > you have not specified the outcome... e.g. a payment penalty, payments owning as if the project was on schedule, etc.

second... a contract is an agreement that is acceptable to both parties, as such the chosen language should alway be "unbiased". My read here > on your delay, a delay could be acceptable as long as you reduce the cost, and their delay, a delay is not acceptable period (the way I read this). In business - delays do occur and sometimes for good reason - may be better to use "immediate contact" as a middle ground to offer a solution for "out of your hands stuff".

I didnt even go into SEO or any of that. If they want that then they will have to be more specific with their request and what it is they are looking for in this clause.

Still believe you should something like:

Search engines continue to improve results to the search engine user. As such, (you) has no direct control to predict a specific outcome. (you) offers no unconditional warranties and/or guarantees with respect to continued and ongoing search engine performances.

All proposed designs, techniques, and strategies are developed to improve website exposure as of today, and adjusted periodically to accommodate changes implemented by search engines, new competition and changing market habits.

The manner in which SEO services are performed and specified duration of work by (you) shall be determined by (you). XYZ Company will rely on (you) expertise to work as many hours as may be reasonably necessary to fulfill the obligations under this contract.

Or something consistent with your current model. It is far better to admit to the limitations of the medium and media - than to allow the potential client to intrepret this for themselves. The client NEEDS to understand your are attempting to hit a randomly moving target, within a randomly changing environment and against growing flax which often gets in the way. :)

martinibuster

4:53 pm on Jun 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



It is far better to admit to the limitations of the medium and media - than to allow the potential client to intrepret this for themselves.

I have to agree with that. If part of what they are hiring you for is seo, then it makes sense for you to take the initiative to shape and control the description of what can be done and what will be done.

For me, it has generally been enough to make a statement of quality work according to generally accepted blah blah blah- and leave it at that.

One of the scams that the Guarantee Offering SEO's indulge in is to rank the client for non-competitive no-traffic keywords. Another is to use spammy techniques and run. It's good to educate a client of this in conversation if they bring up the issue.

jbensous

4:57 pm on Jun 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The proposal is writting in 3rd person.... i just edited out the names and put "my company" so you'd know i was talking about me.

That is a good point about the SEO clause. I will add that, and be more detailed in the delay section on XYZ. The quality assurance testing and website optimization were previously discussed.

fathom

5:17 pm on Jun 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



LOL - I seriously apologize jbensous - if you had used "my widget" :) your deliberate adherence to WebmasterWorld TOS would have been easily recognized.

Man... do I feel stupid now! ;)