Forum Moderators: phranque
Consumers who allow their infected computers to send out millions of "spam" messages could be unplugged from the Internet under a proposal released Tuesday by six large e-mail providers.
I think ISPs ought to also do a lot more proactive work. Too many don't bundle anti-virus and anti-spyware packages with their access packages.
AOL 'deeply regret what has taken place and are thoroughly reviewing and strengthening our internet procedures'. Which should help all the AOL customers when the spam starts rolling in.
Agree absolutely about zombie boxes ...but in the light of their commercial practices I dont think that this particular telecom giant (who are also a major world ISP through their buyouts ) are likely to enforce any kind of ban ....
They do however offer for an additional 4 euros per month ( about 5 dollars ) to filter incoming mails for virii ..as they use N*rton this is totally ineffective but good for revenue...another 4 euros gets you the spam filter from the same N*rton suite ....!
they 're really taking the ****!
The idea that somehow the consumer is responsible for bad product or service is simply "passing the buck" ....no one wants to take responsibility .not the hardware or software provideers or the ISP's ..
They cant, the wont whatever ..so blame it on the comsumer..next they'll want to sue the comsumerfor all the viruses..
Perhaps by 2010 a computer & it software must meet standards and the owner must have a licence before being permited to conect to the internet.
Heck, on tech support this afternoon, I had a poor woman who had never heard of spyware yet it was disabling our program on her computer. She removed it and voila! Problem solved. She almost canceled her subscription cause she thought it was OUR software that was the problem. Its hard to make them understand what can happen and how to cure it. I know I had a heck of a time since I had to guide 10 yr old through downloading and installing a spyware removal program!
This will leave unsavvy users out of the world of the Internet if implemented unfairly.
As soon as the CONSUMER realizes that it was the Restaurant (ISP mail servers) serving up the virus they get sued ..and soon restaurants realize that if they expect to survive they had better make their restraunt safe...
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Nah.. it's the consumers own fault they should have known to take antibiotics before they ever accept any food fromthe restraunt lol
This is how ridiculas it is getting..the idea that somehow it is the ebd users fault for getting sick(virus).. instead of where the blame belongs .the people and companies that enable the serving of the viruses
This will leave unsavvy users out of the world of the Internet if implemented unfairly.
When I was in that business, if a customer of mine was spewing garbage, he got pulled until he fixed it. That customer is a risk and a liabilty to me, and there is no way I'd ever let him on my network infected. It's an economics issue. I don't care about fair or unfair; if your actions will jeporadize my business (read: my network connectivity), then I will not do business with you. It's that simple.
On the contrary to what many of you think, this is becoming more and more commonplace, and it should. Providers are developing automatic mechanisms to detect if you are infected, and if you are, will simply cut you off.
Colleges are the first step. Then consumer broadband services (DSL and cable).
I don't care if an infected Internet user can't get to the Internet. I really don't care. Take care of your stuff, or get whacked. It's that simple.
enable
I enable your access to a worldwide network with no warranties express or implied.
Look for contracts in the future which contain a "we will wack you if you don't take care of yourself" clause.
"Safe" consumers should not pay for the ignorance of other, "bad" consumers.
[edited by: bakedjake at 6:32 pm (utc) on June 24, 2004]
The MAJORITY of internet users have absolutely NO idea even if they are infected ..let alone how to get rid of the infection..
When people can grasp that simple point ..then and only then can the problem really be addressed ..and sent back to where the problem really is .. the hardware , software and ISP's .. security
The MAJORITY of internet users have absolutely NO idea even if they are infected ..let alone how to get rid of the infection..
Then get off of the Internet. The ISPs are giving you exactly what they're contracted to give you. An open pipe.
Run an ISP for a year. You'll be jaded and cynical too.
And while in a corporate setting you can "whack" people, do you honestly think that'll work for the likes of AOL and MSN who suddenly have to deal with thousands of users that have infected machines? That's lunacy! Their users aren't savvy enough. Doesn't mean that can't be made aware. I'm all for making people aware of the crap that happens when surfing the internet. But right now, no one is smacking them in the face telling them about this problem.
If you TOLD the person that there was a problem and to fix it, that's one thing.
We had to call them, obviously. We would call them and alert them of the issue - we had a script explaining to them why we had to disconnect their access. 99% of the time they were very grateful. The one case I can think of that wasn't, left. And that's fine.
AOL and MSN should do the same thing, although they probably won't.
What you will start to see (and in some cases already have seen with Nimda and its friends) is one provider blocking other providers for not shutting down the garbage. Then, you'll see ports being blocked. These actions break the Internet.
No, I'm not sympathetic at all of someone who can't keep their access to the Internet. They couldn't drive with a flat tire, either. And the "they do not know" excuse is just that - an excuse. If you're going to use a tool, you need to learn how to do it properly, or you'll injure other people.
If I'm AOL, no matter what I do, I'm hosed. I can send an email to ALL my users explaining in excruciating detail how to clean up their computers. There will be three reactions. One group of people will delete the message; another will read it and try to do what is suggested, then call with a myriad of questions anyhow, and the third will call no matter how simplistic the instructions.
So, no matter what, as an ISP, you'll waste lots of manhours trying to help people and there will be many that can't be helped short of sending AOL their computer cause they don't know their mouse from their elbow.
Now that they've lost many customers, guess what? Less revenue from actual internet services AND from sites that sell products. Not good.
There is obviously loss with the amount of spam that gets sent, but if this isn't done with MUCH forethought and user education, it could blow up in ALL our faces.
I don't see how you can be so jaded at the users anyhow. From their perspective they stood to win a prize by punching the monkey or they just wanted to listen to some music on the Internet. They didn't know. We're putting the onus on victims here. Could people be brighter and more cautious? YES! Hello. I do tech support. I sympathize with where you're comin' from Jake. But I can't see blaming the clueless without giving them a clue and like you said, AOL is NOT going to take the time, MSN is NOT going to take the time, et al, to call and explain what's happening to thousands or millions of subscribers. Not gonna happen.
Well I understand your frustration...you say you run a ISP? So there we have it ..YOU cant stop the viruses so therefore it is your customers faults!
I think your target for your frustrations are off mark..and intenetional so..
because it is easier for you to take a customer off then it is to REALLY address the virus problem
From an economic standpoint, everyone is hurt here.
You've got that right.
Upstreams are starting to disconnect networks that are spewing garbage. If I don't have my upstream connection(s), I don't have any connection to the Internet, and I lose money.
Transit will become more expensive as time goes on. I think you're seeing DSL, cable, and dial-up at the lowest price it will ever go.
you say you run a ISP?
A consumer ISP? No, not anymore, but I used to. Not profitable enough for the time involved. 4 hours spent on an affiliate site or a consulting gig is much more profitable than spending 4 hours of helping a user out with dial-up tech support.
REALLY address the virus problem
See above. The dial-up customer paying $12.95 per month is not paying me to address their virus problem.
I don't understand your argument, though. Are you saying ISPs should be responsible for their customer's computers?
This will leave unsavvy users out of the world of the Internet if implemented unfairly.
That's fine with me :)
I do think that the frustration about the issue needs to be directed towards education and awareness rather than draconian measures. I'm sure you don't want to see your customer base shrink drastically. No one wants that.
I would however, advocate bounties for catching the people who write malicious spamware. "Dead or alive, $5000 a head"
[news.com.com...]
Microsoft's $5 million fund for rewarding informants for leads on virus attacks has snagged its first success with the arrest of a man in Germany who has confessed to the release of the Sasser worm, the software giant said Saturday.
Whoever controls the mailservers ...yes they should be responsible for the main security..
The core problem is those that are spreading viruses are winning...
The problem of course is how to address that.. taking your customers off line does not address the core problem..
where does that problem lie with? Microsoft security flaws? ISP security flaws ..Is it flaws? or lack of will ,Bottomline issues ..as in it's to costly to fix so we'll just patch aswe get screwed every other day?
These are issues that only the Companies with the talent and cash can address .. not the home users..at the very most we get software "fixes" that are a day late ..thats even if we keep up to date with our siftware .
The virus issue has to addressed upline ..
I'm not sure what the answer is ...but I know that most end users dont have the talent and a lot the cash to buy every new virus program thinking ..this might be the one that really works..on that not only automatically updates definitions but really willstop allthe nonsense dead in it'stracks.. peopel are wary of beliveing any of these companies any more and of spending any more money on partile solutions
I like that..money talks ..
Problem is you take one out , 2 out .. a hundred out.. there's always a fresh supply of unethical people stepping upto spread more..
I think we really need to find a holy grail type of technical way to stop the viruses .. along with the dead or alive.. fine them till it squeezes them dry tactics
I agree .. thats a question I asked earlier....is it really a matter of bottomline issues? Wouldnt suprise me..but is it true? technically speaking..is it? I dont know ..I dont pocess those skills ..But we all would sure like to hear from those that do...
