Sites that break all the rules...

all still kick ass...

[zulufox]

I have read all about SEO, Information Architecture, CMSs, trick and tips of ad placement, drawing visitors in, linking strategies, internal linking, external linking, PR gaining, streamlining code, html, xml, css, xhtml, validation and almost every post on this forum for over a 7 months now.

I feel I can consider myself knowledgable in this topic to a certain point.

But one thing still bothers me.

I know one of the guys that runs this truely amazing travel site, 1000s and 1000s of pages, a thriving community (members fly all over the globe to meet other members and party with them), 6 full time employees all over the globe who started without any outside investment.. they worked during the day and took odd jobs at night for years until the site was making enough for them to work full time on it... truely THESE are the masters of a content site.... from nothing to everything. The site has a very strong PR of 8 (the thing seeps like crazy onto linked pages... its insane)!

However, when I talk to them or look at their site ONE thing becomes clear... they didnt listen to a single word of advice from webmasterworld.

Of the 1000s and 1000s of pages.. all are made using dreamweaver.. every single one..

There is no SEO that I can see.

They never exchanged links for pagerank, infact they seem like they couldnt care less about it. They didnt even know they were PR 8 until I told them last week.

The site is a IAers nightmare, only the most basic of structure.

HTML only...

A graphical design circa 1997

No premium sections, and no neat tricks, no ads inside articles... all the revenue is from affiliate links, adsense, and text ads... ALL test ads. No a banner on any page.

These people have basically broken every "best practice" I can see posted on this forum.. but they are kicking ass basically because they had a good idea and worked their tails off provide massive ammount of content for it... thats it...

Anyone else know any more sites like this? And should we follow their example?

[SlowMove]

Search for "Joe Cartoon". There are definitely rule breaker sites out there.

[Llama]

Joe Cartoon makes more than $100,000.00 per month (though surely it's more now) and use primarily viral marketing.

He has an awesome hummer, and there's just 2 people who make the website.

[ogletree]

If you make a good website and start a comunity people will come. I found WW because somebody told me about it. Not from an SE. I have a friend that has a Game site that does not do very well on the SE's has a PR5. They get a ton of visitors. It's funny how the web works. Anybody can go from nothing to blwoing out their bandwidth alotment in one day. It happens all the time. Make a good site and people will eventualy come.

[1milehgh80210]

if your site has the CONTENT people want to come see?,
well that is 90% of the ballgame.
SEO, validation, fancy graphics, recip links, CSS, adds at most another 10%.

Of course sometimes you need the 10% to jumpstart the 90%!

[maluka]

Some of you just don't get it. I could care less about page rank. I have zero ads. I have a loyal and growing following, mostly from word of mouth. I have 4 links to other sites and that's it. Some of us do this just to have fun and to keep others informed of certain issues. I have PR turned off. It means nothing to me nor does it to others I know.

[robotsdobetter]

It's funny how the web works. Anybody can go from nothing to blwoing out their bandwidth alotment in one day.

I hope that happens to all my sites. :) I have seen this happen on two of my sites, but don't wait to long for it because it's likely not going to go that way for you.

[grandpa]

Maybe it's not about applying best practices, but more about not getting involved in black hat practices, and just having fun doing what it is that you know how to do. For example, if someone isn't learning about SEO then its a safe bet they aren't learning the tricks that would get them in trouble. They don't obsess with advertising budgets and ROI, links schminks.

I actually tried that once, on my first web site. I bet it still hasn't drawn the first 100 visitors. But that's where I put html to use for the first time, and I didn't care if anyone came or not - it was my site.

<speculation>
Now, I *might* have gotten lucky and drawn the traffic. I *might* have found a demand for my work. I *might* have have posted something besides my bad poetry.
</speculation>

Surfers probably care a lot less about the best practices than we do. Give them a site, with what they want on it, and you've got a winner.

[kristin3574]

hi Zulufox, which site is that? I sure would like to take a look at what they offers. Cheers!

[SlowMove]

If you think about it at the highest level, there are really only three webmaster skill sets:
1) manipulate the machines
2) manipulate the people
3) give the people something that they really want.

The last is the most valuable. If you can handle all three, you're a Grand Master of the game.

[zulufox]

Kristi I stickmailed it to you.

[ergophobe]

There is a certain well-known site in the San Francisco area that is nothing but text and is probably the busiest site in the area - everyone I know uses it for shopping, job hunting, appartement hunting.

It has a pretty good sized staff and I don't believe there is a single image on there, minimal css, a full-on table-based layout etc etc.

Of course, there are no font tags or anything. It's grey bg, black text, blue links.

Tom

[Llama]

Content Is King.

This is the case with these websites. Aslong as they work (even just barely) in their target audiences browsers, and get lucky, they'll be delivering high quality content to thousands, even millions (ESPN gets almost half a billion page loads daily, I believe) per day.

[mep00]

There is no SEO that I can see.

The first rule of the Web and SEO success is: "Content Is King." Every other rule, without exption, is tied, at least in part, to that rule. All the other rules either add content, enhance content, or simulate content. Don't forget, the Internet has been called "The Information Super Highway." (Do people still call it that any more?)

[kristin3574]

Thanks Zulufox. I got the mail. Cheers!

[peter andreas]

I would agree, just do your own thing. I have tried to optimise here and there but with my limited knowledge I'm afraid I'll iadvertently do things considered bad by the search engines. To me the objetct is to get people to link with you, on there own accord so we are just trying to add more good content at every opportunity.

[HughMungus]

SEO is like makeup. Some sites are naturally "beautiful" and don't need makeup to look pretty to people and the search engines. Some sites need a little makeup to look pretty. It's that simple.

[mep00]

Some sites...don't need makeup...[s]ome sites need a little makeup....

...and the there are the clowns!

[karmov]

Yep, you can manipulate the search engines all you want, but in the end, people will search for what they want and will only read stuff that is relevant to their situation and/or stuff they like. The web is a people game, just like everyone else. We just happen to use machines to interact with people rather than the paper in magazines or the neon in a shop window.

Everything is all about people...

[Llama]

And the badger badger badgers [badgerbadgerbadger.com]