Let's talk about money.

[csdude55]

Things were bad enough already... my number of users has been about the same since 2015, with a near 100% penetration of my demographic. But pages-per-session has dropped by about 50%, mostly with mobile users: they look at fewer pages per session, and they make fewer posts with the site.

And, of course, revenue has dropped proportionately. Worse, I can only show 2 ads per page to mobile users versus 6 on desktop, so my RPM on mobile is less than 1/6th of that on desktop. So mobile becomes a growing, downward spiral for me.

Not to mention... ad blockers. As far as I can tell, about 50% of my traffic uses an ad blocker. Most of them don't even realize it! Anymore, they come preinstalled on computers and mobile devices, and when they don't, repair shops install them to "prevent" viruses.

Now, with the pandemic, my direct-sold ads are practically non-existent; most of my regular advertisers were forced to close, and many of them are now out of business. A few years ago I had 100 direct-sold ads, now I have 3 :-O

In order to stay afloat, I desperately need to find a way to make an additional $2,000 USD /month. I already use Adsense, and I use Sulvo to place a sticky banner at the bottom of every page; those are the primary sources of revenue right now, but I'm still coming up $2,000 short of paying all of the bills.

I've used other networks that sell ads and use Adsense for backup, but none of them really made anything more than I made with Adsense; sometimes they made less.

I've tried countless affiliate programs, I've tried selling my own products, I've brought in value-added third-party programs like Coupons.com and Flipp, but none of them have made any real money.

Web design is a dead industry in my area. I make a little off of website hosting, but nowadays I'm competing with $2.75 /month for 30G of storage so it's next to impossible to get a new client.

I've tried to think of new features to add that might increase pages per session, but I honestly can't think of anything that someone won't just copy on Facebook and kill mine before it even starts.

I have 2 sections of my site that make no money: gun classifieds and personals. I had to remove Adsense and Sulvo from both of those sections, so while I still get pageviews when they converse by Private Message, it's still a lot of pageviews going unmonetized. I tried to sign up with BuySellAds.com but they never replied.

I also have a live chat that's totally unmonetized. It has about 18,000 logins /month, but I have no idea how long the sessions last or anything.

When it's all said and done, I have about 1.2 million pageviews /month with Adsense, another 150,000 or so with the gun classifieds, and another 50,000 or so with the personals.

Can you guys and gals suggest anything I might do to increase my revenue by $2,000 /month, in addition to Adsense?

[lammert]

That's easy. Stop focussing on online and let the sites do their job of earning you money 24/7 automatically.

Use the free time you get to earn money in an offline job. Lots of work available even in this pandemic time where you don't need much specific education. Think of parcel delivery, grocery stores, covid-19 contact tracing etc.

[csdude55]

Free time? What's that? LOL

No joke, I spend anywhere from 12-18 hours /day working online... moderating, customer service, server stuff, ad sales, data entry, etc. And, of course, I've been working on rebuilding the site to be more mobile friendly, but that keeps getting pushed to the back burner just because I don't have enough time. There used to be a staff of 5 to do most of that, but now it's down to 2 so I'm doing the job of 4 people. If I stop doing these jobs then revenue goes down, and I end up trading medium income for low income.

If I could cut out those 6 hours of sleep every night... just wasted time >:-( Meth, maybe? Who needs teeth, anyway! LOL

There's also a concern of perception. My demographic is local, and I'm perceived as exceptionally well-off. That perception has brought in many advertisers and employees. If I do anything to change that image then I lose the ability to recover in the long run.

I've tried doing freelance coding jobs, but the pay is inevitably considerably less than I can afford to invest.

What I really need to find is a new way to bank on my traffic that doesn't cut my existing revenue.

[brotherhood of LAN]

Do you have any sites you could potentially sell? Might buy you the time you need.

[martinibuster]

mobile users: they look at fewer pages per session

Do you enjoy reading your site on mobile?

Maybe increasing page views with mobile users might help.

Can you expand to podcasts and YouTube?

[csdude55]

Do you have any sites you could potentially sell? Might buy you the time you need.

I actually just replied to a spam email I got from a site broker about 2 weeks ago... I sent him my income reports, and haven't heard from him since :'-(

If I continue to lose $2,000 /month then I realistically have 6 months of credit left. So that's my maximum timeline to increase my revenue.

Do you enjoy reading your site on mobile?
Maybe increasing page views with mobile users might help.

This has been a conundrum, honestly.

Right now my site is not mobile friendly, so it's definitely a pain to read on a phone. They're getting an 800px width on a 300px phone, so they have to zoom and scroll to read. I've been slowly working on rebuilding the site to be mobile friendly, but there's just not enough time to do everything myself and I really haven't touched it in 4, maybe 5 months.

And it's hard to get motivated on it, since I can see that mobile ads are worth less than desktop ads, AND I'll be showing 2 ads per page vs. 6. So I'm worried that I'm working really, really hard on a rebuild that's going to inevitably end up making even less money.

A major feature would be a way to give mobile users a notification when they get a message on my site; not a browser notification, but an actual mobile notification. But that's over my head, and I haven't found anyone that can help me with it.

Can you expand to podcasts and YouTube?

Hmm. Not in a way that I can think of at the moment... my content is mostly user driven, with classifieds, message boards, etc. The data I enter is for the local events calendars, restaurant listings, and business listings (because the business owners simply never update any of it themselves; most can't even figure out how to email).

[lammert]

What is the amount of unique users per month? With a local demographic and focussed on user-generated content, this amount may be quite low compared to the number of pageviews. If that is the case, you shouldn't focus on global partners to try to fill the money gap but on local businesses. Global partners are mainly interested in the number of unique eyeballs per month, local businesses are more about engagement and repeat visibility.

[csdude55]

It's hard to be exact because I actually have 55 sites, all focusing on different locations. But my biggest site had 43,774 unique visitors last month (not counting ad blockers, of course), and most of them visit the site daily. All sites combined, maybe 100,000 unique visitors.

For whatever reason, selling ads to local businesses has been like pulling teeth from a jaguar! The company is almost 20 years old and has a great reputation, but it just seems like most of the business owners can't wrap their heads around it. Many of them are much older, though, and still pay a ton of money for ads in the local newspaper that no one reads.

And it doesn't help that most of my regular advertisers (retailers and restaurants) were shut down for COVID, and many of them are out of business now.

I've been convinced for years that a good salesman would be my saving grace, but now I don't know that we'll see a local economic recovery for 2-3 years. I'm still going to try my best because it's something I already offer that's not well tapped, but I can't really rely on it.

[brotherhood of LAN]

Is reducing cost an option that would amount to a % of that $2K? e.g. if you're using managed hosting, would unmanaged be OK? I've ran 300 (low traffic) WP sites on a £50/m box, perhaps there are ways you can easily reduce cost for all those sites you're running.

[graeme_p]

@csdude, thanks for starting this discussion. I have often thought we should have more discussions about business and financial issue.

I have been there. Some years ago my best site, which has making a decent Adsense income, dropped sharply in Google search (I posted about it at the time). I have also had issues like losing multiple clients (for different reasons) at the same time, etc.

I think you should look at where you effort is going and cut back on what is not bringing in money. For example, if hosting and web design are not bringing in much money but taking up a lot of time, just stop doing them. That will free up time to do other things. It does not feel right to turn away business when things are going badly, but otherwise you have no way to break out of the downward spiral you seem to be in. It would give you the time to do essential things like making your sites mobile friendly, etc. and cut server costs.

I am not saying that is what you should do, but that is the sort of thing to look at.

Do you know what is actually profitable? I find a lot of SMEs do not. Especially what is profitable after taking into account staff time and your time and indirect costs?

[graeme_p]

More thoughts:

1. If you pull out of the least profitable businesses, you might be able to sell those parts of the business or at least customer lists. You may not get a lot, but its probably worth more to someone else (who specialises in those lines).
2. Working 12 hours a day is not conducive to doing good work and is not sustainable.

[iamlost]

Given what you’ve shared I’d say that you have two separate critical urgent jobs:
Note: where how you gouge out the time is your decision but it needs be done, same old nose to grindstone is now failure mode.

1. transition to device independent sites; typically mobile first responsive.

While mobile is finally plateauing (there only so many people requiring so many devices) and COVID/WFH has reenergised laptop/desktop sales the more local a market the more important mobile.

2. Rebuild local/regional advertiser base. Leverage your local reputation and local targeting reach. Plus cut out the third party cut.

This is always difficult as you are elbowing into an existing market and existing mindsets. The fact that you’ve dropped here due to previous direct advertisers means that it is viable, just not with those particular DOA advertisers.

I’d pick one to three candidates (that (1) know appreciate your local rep (2) have significant local influence), put together ad campaigns for each that leverages their businesses and your sites strengths and offer them a three month cut rate trial so that both you and they can see the value - remember that they are likely hurting just as you. Pull out all the stops, use your imagination, and track test and adjust - put the power of digital over analog/print to work.

Best case they or someone goes for it, the results are worthwhile, and you can then leverage their success to bring on others and regrow unshared revenue.
Critical Note: where ad blockers are a concern don’t serve what they are blocking. A couple possibilities:
* ‘native’ style ads or ad blocks

* Lift up your eyes... December 2007 [web.archive.org]
An example I shared over a decade ago of content with ‘inline’ ads plus...

Think outside the box, especially outside the third party ad type box.

Best wishes.

[engine]

Lots of great ideas here.

I'd probably go back to basics and create a plan if starting fresh. A plan helps keep a focus, and stops drifting and getting lost in the the woods.

Here are some ideas.:-
Set goals.
Look at the market opportunities for the offering.
Look at the costs involved.
Look at the ways of funding it.
Consider investors.

Stay positive.

[martinibuster]

>>>>Right now my site is not mobile friendly...

You need to get motivated. In a few more months Google will stop indexing non-mobile friendly content. So if it's a purely desktop content, Google may exclude the site from the index, as it's going to be a mobile-only index.

[robzilla]

In a few more months Google will stop indexing non-mobile friendly content. So if it's a purely desktop content, Google may exclude the site from the index, as it's going to be a mobile-only index.

This requires some nuance. The change doesn't have anything to do with mobile friendliness. If the content is accessible from mobile, it will still be indexed. Content that only appears to desktop clients will no longer be indexed, simply because it won't be visible to the mobile-only Googlebot. If csdude55's sites offer the same content to both desktop and mobile, they won't be affected by this change.

It goes without saying that making the sites mobile-friendly should be a priority. And not getting a good RPM on mobile now is not a great reason not to do it, because of course RPM will suffer if users have to constantly zoom in and out on your content. In fact, I think this may be one of your best opportunities to improve your bottom line.

Sites that have a lot of returning visitors, like yours, tend to suffer more from the effects of ad blindness. Still, all those local eyeballs should be worth something, and with 55 sites you'd "only" need one advertiser for $36/month per site to get to $2,000. Are you making it clear enough on the sites that people can advertise there? Can you sell premium classified, restaurant or event listings?

[JorgeV]

Hello,

First of all , sorry for your financial problems @csdude55.

In order to stay afloat, I desperately need to find a way to make an additional $2,000 USD /month.

You might not be able to say, but it also depends how much $2K compares to your current earnings.

if you are making 100k and need an extra 2K this is something which can be possible.

If you are doing 2K and need to make twice more, this is more difficult to imagine, in a short time.

That being said, you work a lot, may be you can figure out how to automatize some things.

For your sites with a local audience, you might try to run a section about sales/discounts/promotions available in their area. May be you can compile yourself such promotions and then have a premium option allowing local business to post their promotions, or be featured.

If it's not yet the case, you can also try to run a newsletter.

A said at another topic, you might consider switch host , because I have the impression you are paying too much. However, I know how this can be difficult to switch.

Making your site mobile friendly, is really mandatory. No hard feeling,but this is something which should have been a priority, 2 or 3 years go.

It's not because you show less ads on mobile pages, than it will earn you less.

Lot of people are now using their mobile phone, for anything and everything. This is a fact.

As for indexing, if your site is not mobile friendly, Google can certainly penalize you (not indexing correctly) content which is hard to see on small screens (like for example, having to scroll right, or un zooming).

Not being mobile friendly drags you into a negative spiral.

Unrelated, since you are running a business with up and down, you may also consider opening a blog, where you can share your experience, who knows it might generate good traffic, from people in similar situation, and eventually monetize your experience.

Just random thoughts .Good luck.

[tangor]

1. Markets are fluid. They NEVER stay the same.

2. One needs to be flexible to change (since nothing stays the same).

3. Knowing when to change is the most difficult part since all projections are based on "the same" going forward, which never happens.

4. Early success does not equal to twilight success. Seasons change. Markets mature, and the middle people (used to be "men" but we live in different times... another example of change in progress) keep getting richer.

5. The dimensions of the square peg and the round hole change on a daily basis so incrementally small that one needs to be VERY observant to see AND PREDICT those changes to avoid deep cuts in budget just to keep playing.

6. Realities: X on cash in hand, Y on future expenditures, Z on potential income equals ... what one needs to do.

All the above is not an answer, merely an insight on how one can get mired in a quandary when expectations are not met by a non-contractual third party who can, and does, unilaterally change the goal posts, often in an arbitrary manner.

All I can offer is "find your money side" and address that. Forget, or scale back, any other development until the cash flow problem has been addressed. Immediately! Then, once that is solved, continue the other aspects for emerging outcomes in the future.

Else, just give it up. G is not going to change what they are doing. You have to make the change to keep playing. ASIDE: Covid changed everything else. During panic times folks hold on to their money, even businesses that WANT to advertise. All is in "wait and see" mode at the moment. All one can do is extend that moment for cutting back and holding on to what they have to get past "this, too, shall pass" moment.

Good luck!

[tangor]

Meant to add: There's no "code" that will solve any of the above. Only time.

[lammert]

I think tangor summed it up pretty well. The problem is not in the sites, the problem is in the cashflow. Fix that.

Through all the covid government stimulus packages worldwide, there is more money available than ever. The problem is that that money is not flowing and many regular income streams have stopped.

Instead of starving until the money streams start again, look where the money is and go there, even if it is outside your comfort zone.

[csdude55]

I want you all to know that I've read every letter you've typed, and I'm taking it all to heart. I was really hoping someone would say, "hey, you could always add THIS to your site, that'll help!" LOL But I guess nothing's ever that easy.

ALTHOUGH! I remember a very long time ago when someone first suggested that I add Adsense to my site... that led to me being able to fade away from offering services and focusing on the sites.

In the end, though, I think you guys (nongender-specific) are right... doing web design was limited because I could only do so much in a day. Hosting is limited due to competition. Adsense is limited by traffic and whoever's advertising. But local ads? That's unlimited. So it's only logical to focus my attention there, potentially just working on rebuilding branding so that they'll remember me when things start to get back on track and they start to advertise again.

And yeeeeaaahhh, I know that I need to get back to making the site mobile friendly. It's incredibly scary because, you're right, Google punishes me for not playing their way. But I can see the numbers and KNOW that mobile users post less, see fewer ads, and the ads they do see are worth less. Maybe those RPMs will go up when it's rebuilt? I don't know, but it's a pretty big gamble that I think I'm going to be forced to take, like it or not.

And it really doesn't help that my girlfriend is super negative about the business, telling me that it's stupid to market the sites, we're deprecated because of Facebook, and she's embarrassed for us to try. It's not like she's given any alternatives, but it's hard to get excited about all of it with negativity in your ear all day...

But anyway.

The plan is to (a) start doing some local, inexpensive branding (giving out promos, kissing hands and shaking babies, that kind of thing), (b) spend the Winter finishing up my rebuild, then (c) do a big push to pick up advertisers sometime around February. That gives me a 2 month buffer to pick up $2,000 /month worth of advertisers.

:-O

[lammert]

Maybe your girlfriend is right. You haven't gained any traction since 2015. You lost 97 out of 100 local ads. What do you think will change in the next few months?

[csdude55]

I try to keep emotion out of it and focus on numbers and logic... I know that most of my advertisers left because my state's governor forced most businesses to close due to COVID. They didn't cancel because of anything that I or the site did, they canceled because they weren't open and weren't making any money.

On the other hand, I also know that I'm losing out to businesses that focus exclusively on Facebook. And that's a battle I can't win. I have more local users than Facebook, I have more content, and the ads are considerably cheaper, but there's a false perception that everyone is on Facebook. There's really nothing I can do to fight that, other than general marketing and wait for them to come back on their own.

On the other hand (third hand, I guess?), I still see plenty of billboards, I know that businesses have ads in the local newspaper and state magazines. So advertising still exists, even if it's diminished and the media is more or less giving it away.

So I really have 2 options: (a) I can work hard to rebuild and then do a heavy push for advertisers, or (b) I can just throw in the towel.

The problem with (b) is that I still have the same mortgage, car payment, groceries, etc, so I'm upside down either way. I don't have a college degree, and there are few local jobs that pay more than minimum wage even if I DID have a degree. So the alternative is to try to find a job somewhere else based on my experience, then try to sell the house and relocate.

But with (a), the things that can change are a potential improvement against COVID and businesses reopening, new (hopefully exciting) advertising options on my sites, and my pretty face going out and physically selling ads. That really comes down to me betting on myself.

[graeme_p]

I have more local users than Facebook, I have more content, and the ads are considerably cheaper

Maybe you need to build your marketing around that. Maybe even up your pricing and says its a better (more conversions?) alternative to FB rather than a cheap one.

there's a false perception that everyone is on Facebook

The middle aged are. Unfortunately the people who are writing the cheques.

That said, a lot of people dislike Facebook, so there might be an opportunity to get them with the right pitch. Think in terms of "contrarian marketing". I recently heard a great podcast on that, but it would probably be breaking forum rules to mention it.

So the alternative is to try to find a job somewhere else based on my experience

Remote work and freelancing. I know you said coding did not make much, but look at your full rande of skills.

I am not a fan of business books in general, but one I read recently really helped me think things through and refocus: "Company of One" by Paul Jarvis.

But I can see the numbers and KNOW that mobile users post less, see fewer ads, and the ads they do see are worth less. Maybe those RPMs will go up when it's rebuilt? I don't know, but it's a pretty big gamble that I think I'm going to be forced to take, like it or not.

I do not think you have anything to lose here.

A good responsive design will not lose your desktop users and will make your site better for mobile device users.

In terms of ads, you cannot make them see more ads, but you can position them better for mobile.

[JorgeV]

If you believe the problem is the Covid-19 situation, and the lock down of local businesses in your area, may be you should hibernate your company too, until things settle and reopen.

For example:

- you can fire your two employees, this is not nice for them, but may be they can earn some unemployment check for a moment ?

- you can temporarily disable posting at your sites, or some of them, so you don't have to spend time moderating / watching messages.

I guess you tried affiliate networks like CJ ? Amazon, eBay ? Amazon and eBay might not earn big, but they might still earn some ,if you promote the right products to your audience.

[robzilla]

Perhaps there are things you now do manually, that you can automate. Or maybe find some volunteers willing to help moderate, like here on WebmasterWorld.

A responsive redesign is a lot of work, especially since most of your code seems to be custom, from what I can remember. So I hope you've set it up in such a way that all 55 sites don't have to be changed individually. And refer back to engine's comment about making a plan. A proper business plan can help you decide whether or not to continue, and if it's a good plan maybe you can even find financial backing.

I dug up a URL you once shared with me. Are you sure that blocking all traffic from outside the US is not hurting you ad revenue? Sometimes local content can be helpful to outsiders (or maybe the click ads if the content's not helpful), and people do travel, emigrate, etc.

Finally, I don't know what it's like in the US, but over here anyone financially affected by the covid crisis can ask for a subsidy or a loan from the government.

[SumGuy]

To the OP: You say that a lot of your local advertisers have closed (for good?) because of covid, but at the same time you're saying that a lot of local advertisers are on fecebook, - can both statements be correct? Have you tried to create a list of the local companies that are advertising on fecebook (by taking careful notice of the ads you see there as you use or browse or do what-ever people do on that site) and then done direct, custom marketing or contact to those businesses?

Not to take this off-topic (a lot has already been covered though), but speaking as someone who (a) owns and operates a business for about 25 years, (b) manages the web-site and server for said business,for the past 20 years and (c) has been a user of the internet since about 1988 and takes a lot of action to customize my browsers for the most optimal way for me to experience the internet and websurfing - I have never been a fan of internet advertising, nor a believer in it's cost/benefit performance for anyone paying for internet advertising. Knowing and seeing the inner-workings of what actually hits web-sites and from where, I have a jaded view of the various eco-systems operating on the internet, ecosystems that the public at large (and advertising clients) never see or don't even know exists. Click-fraud in particular is something that completely turns me off any interest to tie my business and website into any of the various commercial advertising schemes.

If there is a way for a business to know how any particular sale or fraction of business can be attributed to paid internet ads I might change my mind. I've done no research on that aspect so maybe there is a way to know or maybe there isin't.

That's my 2 cents on the topic.

[csdude55]

Lots of comments here that I want to reply to, but I'll try to stick to the bullet points...

The middle aged are. Unfortunately the people who are writing the cheques.

@graeme_p, in my area, the Facebook Ad Manager says that there are about 10,000 active accounts. But that includes fake accounts, people with duplicate accounts, etc, and it doesn't define "active", so it's a little misleadingly high.

In comparison, my site that covers the same area has about 44,000 unique visitors per month.

But the amazing thing is that nobody seems to believe me, even though I can show the proof! LOL I had one business owner flat call me a liar, and said that if I proved it then he would advertise with me forever. I showed him the Facebook Ad Manager, logged him in to Analytics, and even offered him a free month to try it for himself with no obligation. That was last year, and I haven't heard from him since.

My girlfriend has the same perception, too. For example, she's posted a few impulse items in my classifieds this week and had no sales, so she decided to try Facebook and sold 4 things overnight. But! On my site she posted them and left; on Facebook she created a group and a logo, invited all of her friends, invited all of her mom's friends... she actively promoted it. And the 4 things sold were to friends of her mom, so they're really pity-buys. But she doesn't see it that way... she sees that my site didn't work and Facebook did.

A good responsive design will not lose your desktop users and will make your site better for mobile device users.

That's actually been my fear: that my desktop users will begin to transition to mobile users, resulting in less and less money.

I've done it plenty of times myself... I'll see something on TV that I want to look up, and where I used to go to my computer to look it up and find myself going down the rabbit hole of looking at more and more pages, now I just pull out my phone, look it up, and I'm done.

Half the time I find the answer on Google without even going to the source's page, which is a whole 'nother problem...

If you believe the problem is the Covid-19 situation, and the lock down of local businesses in your area, may be you should hibernate your company too, until things settle and reopen.

@JorgeV, the concern there is that my users would just pivot to Facebook, and then they're gone forever. I've cut staff to the bare minimum, really, and pushed the ones I have to part-time so they can get unemployment benefits. Any further cuts really would result in me closing :-(

I guess you tried affiliate networks like CJ ? Amazon, eBay ? Amazon and eBay might not earn big, but they might still earn some ,if you promote the right products to your audience.

Yup, and they've all brought in the neighborhood of $1. Since my target audience is based on location rather than a specific interest, I was never really able to figure out how to promote the right products.

Coupons.com and Flipp used to bring in better money, but now they've both virtually died away... I guess apps have taken their place, so no one is looking to clip coupons on websites anymore. Outbrain never really brought in more than $20 /month, but that was a few years ago.

Or maybe find some volunteers willing to help moderate, like here on WebmasterWorld.

@robzilla, that one's easier said than done! LOL My sites... well, the top users are freakin' psychotic. In the classifieds, they demand that I ban somebody that didn't reply to their message fast enough, or if they think the price is too high. In the message boards, politics have become the main discussion and you can imagine how that goes.

In 18 years, I haven't met a single local person that I would trust to volunteer for even light moderating.

A responsive redesign is a lot of work, especially since most of your code seems to be custom, from what I can remember. So I hope you've set it up in such a way that all 55 sites don't have to be changed individually.

It is entirely custom, yes. And it is done in such a way. Thank God! LOL My last major redesign was 2013, though, so I'm going through a total overhaul: MySQL restructuring, converting to MySQLi, building new features, getting rid of features that aren't doing to well and merging them in to other features... it's taking forever.

And refer back to engine's comment about making a plan. A proper business plan can help you decide whether or not to continue, and if it's a good plan maybe you can even find financial backing.

The irony of financing... In 2017 I had an 800+ credit score, and could have gotten a loan easy! But I didn't need the money.

Now that I actually NEED the money, my credit score is in the low 600s and banks won't even return my call.

I spent most of last year trying to refinance my house and use the equity to pay off high-interest loans, which would have lowered my monthly overhead by close to $1,000. After about TEN months of working with the bank, one day they just stopped replying to my emails.

I dug up a URL you once shared with me. Are you sure that blocking all traffic from outside the US is not hurting you ad revenue? Sometimes local content can be helpful to outsiders (or maybe the click ads if the content's not helpful), and people do travel, emigrate, etc.

I'm not really 100% sure, no. I have a handful of expats that I have manually whitelisted, but of course I could be blocking 1,000 others and not know it.

Blocking non-US traffic has cut my spam and scams posted by 90%, though, so I've been looking at it as "minor sacrifice for the sake of improved quality". I could be wrong, of course, but I really don't know how to be sure.

Finally, I don't know what it's like in the US, but over here anyone financially affected by the covid crisis can ask for a subsidy or a loan from the government.

The government here, man... don't get me started. They offered such a plan, but the money was almost immediately snatched up by millionaires and friends of politicians. Small businesses were able to get very little assistance.

I was able to get a $25,000 loan, which is why I'm still afloat right now. But it's just a loan, and the payments begin next year, so it's just borrowing time and going to make it even harder to recover when I have to start coming up with that payment.

To the OP: You say that a lot of your local advertisers have closed (for good?) because of covid, but at the same time you're saying that a lot of local advertisers are on fecebook, - can both statements be correct?

@SumGuy, I might have misspoken... I've seen maybe 2 local businesses with a paid ad on Facebook, I meant that they promote their business by posting regularly and making near-constant updates.

For years, I had a steady list of about 100 regular advertisers. It would ebb and flow a little, but once we had 100 I would stop trying to get more because I wanted them to all have good results and not overflood the market.

That started to go down a little in 2017, then a little more in 2018, and so on. I live in an area that's suffered a bit with the economy that's gotten increasingly weaker: chain stores and restaurants have closed, others have been nervous and began hoarding their advertising money, bigger manufacturers that used to advertise job openings have either closed or relocated... As of January 2020, almost all of my advertisers were small businesses that typically only advertise for one month, so it's a lot more work for the same money.

Then when COVID hit, a lot of them were forced to close by government order (restaurants, gyms, salons, etc). The ones that were still open had their customer base cut, too, so of course they stopped paying.

I've reached out to old advertisers and people I see posting on Facebook, and offered huge discounts, free months, etc. But I've had surprisingly few takers, and I honestly can't explain that one.

Throwing back to @lammert's earlier question, I'd almost forgotten that in January I started to offer an ad option to take over the above-the-fold Adsense banner for a flat rate for a full day. The CPM rate was $0.15, but I would still stand to almost triple what I'm getting from Adsense for that location.

That never actually got off the ground because I stopped promoting it in March, but I feel like it has some potential with the right clients. I really wish that I could figure out how to use Google's Ad Manager to let clients bid and compete with Adsense with their own budget, but that one's gone way over my head.

[csdude55]

I have never been a fan of internet advertising, nor a believer in it's cost/benefit performance for anyone paying for internet advertising. Knowing and seeing the inner-workings of what actually hits web-sites and from where, I have a jaded view of the various eco-systems operating on the internet, ecosystems that the public at large (and advertising clients) never see or don't even know exists. Click-fraud in particular is something that completely turns me off any interest to tie my business and website into any of the various commercial advertising schemes.

If there is a way for a business to know how any particular sale or fraction of business can be attributed to paid internet ads I might change my mind.

@SumGuy, this is a whole different story, really.

I like the concept of internet advertising above traditional because you can easily see how many people have clicked on your ad, and with Analytics you can see where they come from. So you can make a pretty fair estimate of the value of the ad.

That compares to newspapers, billboards, etc, where... who knows? Maybe 10,000 people saw it, maybe 1 did.

I had a similar experience with an ad on Facebook several years ago, though, that turned me off from using them entirely. I forget the details, but I ran a pretty expensive ad campaign that targeted all of North Carolina (US). After spending around $2,000 and not having a single user register (and most were just going to the homepage and leaving), I saw that 99% of my clicks had come from the city where Facebook was located! I am absolutely convinced that it was either bots or real people actually at Facebook headquarters running up false clicks.

So use... but don't trust. Never trust.

For my advertisers, though, it can be hard to know how well the ad works because they're all local. Someone might see the ad, remember that the restaurant exists, and then go eat there, but how is the restaurant owner supposed to know that's why they came?

That's one area where Facebook kicks my butt. The restaurant posts, people like it, they feel like they did something good. It doesn't matter that the people that saw it were already customers and fans (else they wouldn't have seen it), they just see 100 likes or whatever and think they accomplished something.

In comparison, they post something for free on my site and have no real idea if anyone saw it. I have a graph where they can see how many impressions it has had, but I guess that's not the same as getting a notification of "aww, Jimmy liked it!" LOL

I dunno, maybe I'll implement a "like" feature. I hate it because I worry that people will just click "like" instead of replying and adding to discussions... but I just don't know.

[tangor]

Measuring for metrics is a killer (and time waster) but is the only "tool" you can offer to your advertisers ... guess what, those who use you direct can only depend on what your raw logs say.

NEVER FORGET THE RAW LOG!

Not as pretty as GA, but is more truthful.

The adventure continue. Hang in there! :)

[tangor]

Unfortunately, what g leaves behind fb is vacuuming up!

Direct is HARD WORK!

(been there, done that, still doing it!)