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I may literally be going insane due to lack of traffic.

This is a 100% serious post. I wish everyone would read it.

         

CannoThinkOfOne

1:55 am on Aug 27, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Short story: literally no traffic comes, regardless of the time and efforts put in.

Here's what I and, I assume, most people without money do when launching a new unique website that took forever to carefully put together from scratch and which contains absolutely no advertisements or anything else that could be annoying and off-putting:

I pay $150 to test AdWords. I get ~100 clicks from bots or completely uninterested surfers who apparently clicked on the ads by accident, out of malice or because the ad matching was poor. A complete waste of money, unless the budget is at least 10x bigger and you can afford to do it daily. But with that kind of money, you can get real advertisements instead of feeding that Google scam…

I submit both the main URL and then each and every post to Digg. Zero votes, zero clicks and zero comments. Doesn't matter if I use the same account or different ones.

I submit both the main URL and then each and every post to Reddit. A handful of clicks, sometimes a couple of comments (ON REDDIT!) and mostly negative votes, seemingly out of habit/malice. Doesn't matter if I use the same account or different ones.

I tweet about it all. Always zero clicks from Twitter except from link checker bots.

I friendly manually ask people to visit my new site in a chat room. Ban and insults.

I friendly manually ask people in private to visit my new site. Insults and reported, then k-lined for spam.

I put the URL in the signature and post genuine, high-quality posts on major forums. Insults, harassment and virtually no clicks. Definitely not worth the effort either.

I write nice, relevant comments to major blog entries and discreetly add my site's address. No clicks.

I indiscreetly dump my site's address in random forms as an experiment, sometimes automating this in desperation. No clicks. Deletion of entries.

I manually spend hours upon hours of actively finding the correct e-mail addresses for news tips (or when unavailable, fill in their web forms) for all newspapers and news outlets in existence and ask them in a very friendly and professional way to write something about it. Zero response. Nothing written anywhere.

I make a YouTube account and upload attractive video clips to get many views and put my address in the "description" field and on the profile. Zero clicks. Account banned in a sneaky way by Google without stating the reason.

I always try to work on SEO, but since SEO, for all practical purposes beyond the bare minimum things you can do locally, depends entirely on the number and "quality" of in-links, no traffic comes from search engines either. People don't link to quality content at all, because they don't find it in the first place.

I keep polishing the site, add features, weed out bugs, create quality content, do all of these things over and over again, constantly trying new angles… until I finally give up and try something different. A clear pattern has now formed: it doesn't matter what you do.

It's as if there's a great party prepared where everyone's invited, but almost nobody shows up. That's exactly what it feels like after months of planning and executing all of this.

Then I check what's hot on random sites and I see links to spammy blogs full of ugly ads with copied and pasted content ranking #1 with thousands of upvotes, comments and praise from various communities.

There is something terribly wrong somewhere. I'm sure I can't be the only one in this situation, and I'm also sure it doesn't make sense to anyone who hasn't been there. The sad fact, however, seems to be that the quality of a product/service doesn't matter at all. It's all about knowing the right people, having the initial funding and plain dumb luck. There is no other way to explain it, and maybe it's obvious to some people… still, it's extremely hard to actually, truly "buy" that theory/fact, as it requires extreme amounts of cynicism.

The entire "system" that the commercial Internet relies on really is designed to stop people like me from ever getting their voices heard. It's a bizarre paradox to have such a huge part of the total human population connected to each other, yet it's more difficult than ever to get a message out. Sure, you can write as much as you want and publish it on your site, but nobody will read it. So in practice, it doesn't really exist at all. "If a tree falls and nobody is around, does it make a noise?"

I've read countless inspiring posts over the years by people who went from rags to riches, but it unfortunately doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything but pure dumb luck. That's what I have to conclude from this miserable life.

*checks site*

<sarcasm>Oh. Nice. The trusty old Googlebot has paid me a visit in the last few hours. I'm gonna be rich!</sarcasm>

CannoThinkOfOne

10:26 am on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Lexur: I'm not at all sure whether you're being sarcastic or if you truly think so...

scooterdude

10:54 am on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Question:

Is your site a web application or a blog or journal kind of site

tangor

10:54 am on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I must confess I'm a bit confused, too. No site I've ever put up has gone neglected by the bots, nor have they been minus visitors. Some of those sites do better in traffic than others, but that's the difference between chocolate lovers (one type of site) and mud pie makers (different type of site)... more of the former and fewer (and different kind) of the latter.

PM your site to me. I'll take a look. Can't make suggestions in the dark. Or upgrade your profile with location info and I'll take a look that way.

That $150 mentioned above... have you tried that in the local newspaper? You'd be surprised how effective that can be.

CannoThinkOfOne

12:41 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I've sent a PM each to the two people I saw requesting the URL.

What do you mean by "minus visitors", tangor?

Haven't tried local newspaper. It's not a niche or localized site.

Lexur

1:00 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



CannoThinkOfOne, it seems you can't see it, but there is people trying to help you. Some of them charge more than one hundred per hour and are giving you advice for free.
You still seem to think you have a worthy website and that you're doing the proper marketing for it. I was exactly in the same point in 2.002 and now I see myself arrogant and incompetent in those times.

It's your election now: a) you can follow your self and rant for ten years more about how stupid the world is because they can't appreciate the value of your proposal or b) you can accept you're doing the things the wrong way, despite your efforts, and get in ten years a nice house with a Mercedes in the garage.

This is not sarcasm, I took the option b). You're free to take whatever you want.

CannoThinkOfOne

1:06 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Lexur: Yeah, I'm doing everything wrong just because I lack the funds to get the word out, having tried virtually all alternate means.

Ten years of additional work after all this for a nice house and a Mercedes? That'd be one miserable life. I have far bigger plans than that.

No offence, but I'm definitely not "arrogant and incompetent". I used to be, though. For sure. Today, I've fixed those things but still can't get the word out. In fact, it seems *more* difficult these days.

pageoneresults

3:31 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I've sent a PM each to the two people I saw requesting the URL.


For those of you who may be providing a free site review via StickyMail for the OP, careful! If your feedback does not align with the OP's vision, you can expect a verbal lashing. I made that mistake. ;)

CannoThinkOfOne

3:53 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



FYI, pageoneresults' "free site review" was actually one long insult. I'm surprised he's a "Senior Member" if that kind of trolling is common by him. Maybe he keeps it in private only.

tangor

3:54 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



As one of those PM'd with the site, I took a look. I'll make my comments public in hopes that it might also spark other conversation. What follows is MY OPINION.

Initial impressions:
It's a blog. With a very unattractive and difficult to read visual layout EVEN THOUGH IT IS SIMPLE. That much black background! The small type size! The slide bar with white text... The Fixed Layout... so 1990s.

Content:
There isn't any theme. It is a general blog on dozens (and dozens) of topics. In that regard there's no "handle" or direction and that means:

Difficult to SEO or Index, or obtain/retain loyal visitors:
Because there are so many different topics/keywords possible, it is difficult to categorize, ie. return as the "best result for the user" in any given "match". As the "interest" is so diverse, only others with the same taste will find it useful, or desire to return.

Aggregate/Duplication:
I would suggest while the content was original at one time, it comes from other sources. I found little NEW content... (and the disclaimer at the top of each post indicating same is a dead giveaway, even if I hadn't recognized several). Lack of attribution was a head scratcher.

My observation is the site is so diverse that comment re: SEO/INDEX above is most likely the one that matters most as to why traffic is so low. There's nothing to "hang yer hat on" as the old phrase goes.

As to my "nor minus visitors" simply means they always had visitors, some more than others, but all have had visitors.

Personally, I don't care for the visual layout, but then again, I'm getting old, my eyes aren't what they used to be, and five (5) zoom toggles made it big enough to read. As a clickable site, it works just like any other blog... nothing MECHANICALLY wrong. But there's no UNIFYING THEME to the site, there's no real information on the home page to say WHAT IS THE PURPOSE AND WHY YOU WANT TO BE HERE. I have a strong suspicion that those who have followed your links scattered here and there took one look, shrugged, then clicked the back button to continue with their day. And (and this is the most harsh thing I will say) it has nothing to distinguish it from thousands of other ill-defined web sites which populate the web. If you want visitors the mechanical part (building the page) is the least part of webmastering. The hard part is:

WHO
WHAT
WHERE
WHY
HOW

Those are the factors which focus a site/story/occupation. Example:

WHO (we are) and (who we appeal to)
WHAT (we are) and (what we can do for you)
WHERE (we are, location/or in the "biz") and (where we are, where we can assist)
WHY (we do it) and (why you want it)
HOW (we operate/sell) and (how you might buy/obtain info)

These things, I believe, are far larger problems than getting your link out or how to get your link out. Fix these things and I'll bet the links will come naturally, provided the content is compelling.

As a marketer, I won't have a clue how to even present this. The "niche" of folks with interests this diverse is pretty small... vanishingly small.

pageoneresults

4:01 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



FYI, pageoneresults' "free site review" was actually one long insult.


Actually it was pretty tame compared to some. I spent a bit of time replying to the original post. After seeing that the site was being shared via StickyMail, I wanted to see it too. I presented a concise outline of my "initial impressions" which of course did not align with the OP's vision and it went South from there. ;)

I'm surprised he's a "Senior Member" if that kind of trolling is common by him. Maybe he keeps it in private only.


Not hardly. I do believe I've got a few site reviews that are publicly available here. I know there are a handful in the Supporter's Forum. You're welcome to post any part of my review for public consumption. I kept it private because we were in a private venue. Again, I have no qualms with you bringing the review public for discussion. This is a very interesting case study, from a variety of perspectives.

CannoThinkOfOne

4:19 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Since tangor made this public instead of keeping it private, as I asked him to, and because this thread has given me absolutely nothing, I'll leave this place now. If a moderator sees this, you are free to delete the thread. I won't be responding or looking at it again.

Just some quick comments to tangor: It's NOT a blog and it's NOT got copied content. Those things by themselves make it clear to me that you're not capable of making a proper review, nor am I interested in what you have to say (for this reason). As for "very unattractive visual layout", I can only conclude that you simply lack taste. But don't worry -- you're definitely not alone about that.

This isn't going to turn into a review about your review, but I'd really like to stress that since you haven't even grasped the basic concept that it's not a blog, you cannot possibly make any valuable observations. It's hard to tell if you're acting stupid or if you truly are dumb. I'd like to think you're just pretending.

Good bye. I may still respond to any remaining private messages, but I'm done with this thread.

pageoneresults

4:29 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



For those of you who may be providing a free site review via StickyMail for the OP, careful! If your feedback does not align with the OP's vision, you can expect a verbal lashing.


You see, I told you so!

My review was similar to tangors. I got cussed out via StickyMail because I was to the point with what I had to say. All of us have spent a considerable amount of time providing you with feedback that you can do with as you wish. Like I stated via StickyMail; "Crap in, crap out." and your response was "Does Not Compute". :(

rocknbil

4:31 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



My God, all these people trying to help you and that's the best you can do?

You see this as insulting, open your mind - you won't get this kind of advice for FREE.

We are seniors and you are obviously a beginner. You suck. You're worthless. Good luck, but not really. We hope you fail.


Because you don't hear what you WANT to hear, this is the only way you'll interpret this advice. Criticism is the best tool for improvement. And guess what, it keeps coming, "senior" or not, and you have to keep learning, changing, but standing in the way of all that is your greatest enemy right now: the ability to listen.

did imagine some successful, grumpy old men would berate me, a not successful, grumpy semi-old man...


Some of us are old. Some of us, not so successful. ALL of us are here to help, for those that have the maturity to listen.

I'll tell you one thing though - you sound exactly like me ten years ago. How dare they. Don't they know what I put into it?

If you really love what you do you'll be back, maybe under a different name, but first have to face your own demons. Very hard to do.

tangor

4:42 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Sorry you feel that way. A CMS has a look. A Blog has a look. Hand coded has a look. It's one of those walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. That's the MECHANICAL SIDE.

As to content, this appears MANY TIMES in your LATEST THINGS, a hint that I looked through all the cupboards, under the bed, and tasted the stew on the stove:

[Please note: this text was previously written for a sort of blog, which has just shut down, and had all of its writings donated to (sitename) and actually posted here by the author(s) who originally wrote them.]


A whois indicates that your domain went live Aug 8, 2011. Though I have no doubt you may have been creating/working on content for 10 years, the site itself isn't wet behind the ears!

As for my taste, you're probably right. After all, there's no accounting for taste!

And you failed to ask me to keep it quiet until after I'd already suggested I would post in public and was off to visit your site most immediate, and that review might help generate real results for you with comments from others. We can start from there, which I think would be probative, or we can just let it go. I'm good either way. But a little more truth this time around might be helpful.

edit [a bit of clarity: I did recognize the underlying software approach to be a single topic FORUM and read the rules for using... ie, all content is pre-moderated and NO NAMES or NICKS were allowed, and all "replies" to the comment box at the bottom of the thread are pre-moderated as well). I did kick the tires most thoroughly, so it is correct, this is not a "blog" it is a forum that wants to look like a blog.]

[edited by: tangor at 5:08 pm (utc) on Aug 29, 2011]

netmeg

4:55 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Born to lose.

The Shower Scene

5:22 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The OP does not want suggestions. This is their stated reason for the post:

I was hoping for at least some posts made by people who agree with me and who have found it more and more difficult to get heard. I can't be the only one who is nearly exploding out of frustration about this.


Nowhere in the original post does the OP ask for help and that's because, as it's become clear by now, the OP is not interested in help. Further assistance to someone not interested in assistance may result in your being trolled.

michvhf

6:20 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Canno, is your site comprised of PLR articles? Going off of tangor's comment of many topics, that's what it sounds like. If it is and you haven't significantly changed the text in them you'll never get indexed and you'll be minus visitors (that means you won't have any visitors).

tangor

6:22 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The site is 21 days old. That's why there are no visitors.

Lorel

8:13 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I get about 20,000K visitors per month and rarely go searching for links. I don't even have to advertise anymore.

This is what worked for me:

Set up a "real" website (not a blog). Google has demoted Blog posts (add a real website along with your blog).

Write a lot of articles (tips, tutorials) helping other people who may have questions about your subject and keep writing at least 1 per week or month.

Get some quality links to start with but you should also start seeing people linking to your site in forums and blogs referring to your site. If you don't see these links then check your articles (ask others) to see why they aren't good enough to link to. Maybe you need to change your focus.

In your Tweets -- provide info that other people need, i.e., tips for your area of expertise -- and you will gain followers.

Basically, help others and not focus on your own needs and progress will come.

PS: It took 10 years for my site to get to where it is.

mhansen

8:37 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Set up a "real" website (not a blog). Google has demoted Blog posts (add a real website along with your blog).


I don't want to discount what you are saying with this statement, but I feel its a bit too blanketing. I feel that the "blog-is-bad" statement is being used too freely lately and I would suggest its more a case of:

- A slow loading, poorly structured blog, being used to promote weak or thin content is bad, especially when its on shared hosting and promoting affiliate programs.

Do you have any references to "Google has demoted Blog posts"? I actually ask for two reasons:

1) We use WP as a CMS versus a "Blog" and don't see any downgrade in our sites, or those of the clients we manage.

2) If there are research based references proving Google is demoting blogs at the platform level, I need to be reading them!

:-)

Edit: Please PM me direct with references so his thread can stay on track for the OP.

rogerd

8:51 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member



Whether or not Canno is seeking help, I think this discussion highlights a fantasy shared by many: throw some content up there, drop some social media mentions, and people will start showing up. As everyone has pointed out, social media only works for great content and/or for people who have built up great reputations. I see three paths to success for promoting a site that has useful content (not sure the site being discussed here qualifies):

1) Spend money - PPC spending, paid links, paid content placement, paid social promotion, etc. can at least prime the pump. The better the site, the sooner the application of money can be scaled back.

2) Spend time - building up a reputation and following in forums and social networks, not to mention networking one-on-one with influencers, bloggers, site owners (who can link and refer visitors), etc. may be "free" but takes time, both in terms of hours spent and the months or years to build reputation and relationships.

3) Be VERY clever - if your content is truly good enough to go viral, others will do the heavy lifting for you because they enjoy sharing really good stuff with their friends and followers. For most of us humans, this is a very difficult strategy where success will require lots of effort, skillful execution, and a healthy amount of luck.

netmeg

9:09 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Also, what the OP thinks is "useful content" may not be what everyone (or anyone) else thinks is useful content. If the site that I heard about was the one being discussed, then I can see why it hasn't taken off, and why it will never take off. There was nothing to instantly distinguish it from a gazillion other question and answer sites.

wheel

9:39 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Much of what I post is useful content.

robzilla

10:20 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The site is 21 days old. That's why there are no visitors.

That's plenty of time to at least draw a few people in. There are no visitors because the site's not usable or even interesting -- I'd never have launched, let alone promoted it, in its current form. What's worse, the owner's got his head in the sand, judging from this discussion and the news updates on the site. Altogether it's a simple recipe for failure.

There's no need to say goodbye, though. This is a great place to learn. Just let go of your inner ostrich, and you might actually put that excellent determination of yours to good use.

Lapizuli

10:30 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I dunno about the "plenty of time." Something's weird about new blogs lately in my universe. For example, a new Blogger blog I launched in August and that is indexed and gets significant daily referral traffic from one of my articles with some awesome user metrics has gotten only a handful of search engine traffic - actually, just two fingersful. Indexed but just not ranking - as if that initial push to the top just isn't happening this time and it's gonna have to climb uphill all the way.

streetshirts

10:37 pm on Aug 29, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



CannoThinkOfOne - There are people (wheel,pageoneresults etc) commenting on this thread who were commenting on the forums 8-10 years ago when I launched my site.

We now have #1 google results in the uk for a competitive one-word keyword. Out of 1.6bn results. We have over 2m unique visitors a year. I employ 20 staff.

Listen to them. Do as they advise. It works.

tangor

12:54 am on Aug 30, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Some 15 PM's later, a bit more comes out while much of it remains the same. There's an anxious passion to see it fly, a lack of patience, and the sting of a much larger project along similar lines which came to an untimely end fanning the flames. There is the ability to be reasoned and reasonable, but on the subject of the site itself, no budging. I did suggest coming back to the thread with these attributes and get some comments from those whose skills I really respect, but that I would give no advice in PM. Hope poster comes back.
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