Forum Moderators: phranque
I know there are regular posts from newbies and most experienced users of forums sometimes hardly ever bother reading them as they have more important things to do.
However I will still introduce myself and pray that some of you at least can say Hi and offer guidance.
My name is Steve I am Irish currently living in China, I own a website that has been under construction now for 4 years and during that time I have suffered greatly physically/mentally and financially.
I have worked with about 6 programmers now and everyone it seems has gone through the motions until such a time as they have my trust and my money, then it’s goodbye and thanks very much leaving me and my website in tatters.
It has recently improved and is about 90% finished, that extra 10% is a big difference in making money and losing your savings however,
What I really want is for someone to take me under their wing, someone who has the time and patience to show me how to find someone reliable to finish the works (some coding some grapgics) and how to get the site name out there to prospective members. I have about 12 members left who have been loyal through all the 4 years (god bless them) and have at one point or another had over 2500 registered users pass through. But thanks to the unreliability of the programmers and the site going down umpteen times they do not stay.
I have been advertising through google but it has not helped, the site now as a working game is running smoothly (although not finished the basic game play is operational) since I invested in my own dedicated server.
Is there anyone out there who can help me, I promise I am a good listener and although I may ask you 100 questions like a child I am a smart learner.
I have read some posts that refer to newbies as being lazy, I am definitely not lazy, I just do not know where to begin. I have been fooled and tricked and spun in so many circles that now I just do not know what I am doing anymore.
Anyway, thank you for listening.
Steve.
Welcome to WW and hello from the eastern side of the US. I suspect there aren't too many Irish Pubs where you are, huh ;)
Kidding aside, there is nothing wrong being a "newbie," we all were one once. I am sure if you are a little more specific in your post you would get some advice if not outright help. For example, when you say coding, what type: asp, php, and so on. What type if site: e-commerce, community, informational, etc. Be as specific as possible and I am sure you will be pointed in the right direction. And since your new, some things are not allowed, such as posting URL's. And if someone has a specific question which shouldn't be posted in the forum, they will probably send a Sticky mail, so keep an eye on that too.
Hope this at least gets things started for you.
Marshall
As Marshall mentioned feed us some info
cheers
<edit>
Hi Mashall
Here is a shortcut type only the first letter of each
Web Master World
you'll get WebmasterWorld :)
</edit>
It appears this site may well be different and have credible and genuine people here that are willing to listen, advise and help if they can, this is great and a big thanks to you both.
My site is a virtual greyhound trainer game, some years ago I used to own a couple of racing greyhounds and one day I saw an accident on the track, after that it was never the same and I retired my dogs and tried to think of away to offer the same excitement but with out the possible negative outcomes.
So I purchased a very basic model of a greyhound game from an Australian guy and spent the last 4 years and all of my savings trying to make it into that alternative. It’s a very detailed game and for fans of greyhound racing and indeed horse racing (as its easy to adapt to horse once finished) it is as close as you can come to the sport,
You can buy, breed, train and race greyhounds, building up your racing kennel by shrewd training tactics and care for your dogs. There are hidden penalties for trainers who do not look after there dogs, we even have a retirement home (the object here was that every time a member retired a dog within the game we would donate 50 cents to a real dog retirement home). There's just so much involved in the game, you can place bets and win prizes, the dogs performance is based on a hidden natural ability as well as training techniques, you can raise these by good training and also breed better natural ability dogs.
Anyway, I was and am so close to finishing this dream as I really love dogs and last year I was talking to a large UK bookmaker (who owns real dog tracks) with a view to licensing them the concept. They were very interested in putting on their website and attracting a member base and using the concept for real money gaming as most of their visitors are obviously gamblers.
The appeal is that anyone with hard work and skill can make a successful kennel, it’s a skill based game with several random factors and hidden penalties (some of which are also random) so the result is never a foregone conclusion and this is exactly what appeals in these sports (horse and greyhound racing) as the ‘punter’ likes to think he/she has a certain element of control over the outcome.
Right now there are only purely based random number generated virtual racing online and these do not appeal to the mass of people who like these games/sports, in the UK they always like to bet the underdog because sometimes they do win and this is the element I offer in my game and there is no other like it online that I know of.
I know I have missed the boat on maximizing the potential or at least I believe I have, but for me I charge racing fan's a membership fee and there is no real money involved once inside. It is designed to offer that though, but only if it is finished.
The few members I still have are fantastically loyal but their fees do not cover any losses or even the cost of the server. I paid up front for my server and this runs out in December, I am pretty sure now that if I can’t get it finished and get some revenue in before then, I will no longer be able to operate it and that would be the final nail in both the game and my heart. It makes me sad thinking about all the times I have been ripped off and fooled, I considered myself a reasonably smart person but I was in for a shock there.
One programmer came back after leaving the work incomplete after 5 months, told me he was sick and had to go to the USA to recover, but he was now fit and well and ready to finish the work he had been paid for. I thought great, maybe things are looking up, but after one week of him working on the site he started making suggestions about this needs changing and this would be better etc, carefully structured so that some things were additional to his previous agreed works. Then he hit me with a sad story and asked if he could have 500 pounds (GBP) to pay some bills as debt collectors were knocking at his door, my heart is too soft and I believed him, but after I made him sign another NDA (which he did) and sent him the money via bank transfer he was gone again.
He never returned my emails and was even cheeky enough to still log in on msn but just ignore my messages of “are you ok?”, “is it your health again?” until after several weeks I just deleted him as an msn contact. It was too much and the last straw for me.
But desperation calls and I know I am running out of time if I do not want to see the site disappear forever, hence today I decided to have a look around for sources of inspiration or help.
The coding is PHP and most of that is done, there are some additions that would be needed to complete it, but most of it is tiding up the backend. The design makes it fully automated as far as the game is concerned and the backend fool proof (to suit me) so I can make updates and change account details etc. The rest is really a graphics makeover that would make it look much smarter (although it is not distasteful now) and help with easier navigation I guess.
However the main thing to do though is a 2D or 3D race viewer where members can watch either ‘live’ (well within 2-3 minutes after the race result has been created) and also ‘archive’ races, so they can then enter their dogs on day1 and view the results on day2 for example.
I have an old 2D one but I mean it is old, it will display a race for you to watch and some core elements are accurate like how many dogs in that race (if only 4 dogs entered it only displays 4 dogs racing)the time the race was won in is always accurate and it has archives, what it does not have is a live ability (IE: auto run after a race has been created via the server), the graphics are very poor and the races are far too predictable with only several variables (after you watch it for a while you can tell that the last dog to exit the traps for example will win, or on another variable it may be the first dog to exit will win) and this obviously makes it totally boring to watch once the novelty factor has gone.
On the plus side, there are elements in it that maybe can be upgraded or reused, but I am sure it is coded in something called 'c' so I do not know.
This will also need a fully integrated chat client enabling members to discuss races, dogs and generally have some banter while they are waiting for the races to generate and auto run at the specific time. This would then hopefully create a community atmosphere and also make the whole racing experience seem ‘live or real time’.
Finally on this there would be integrated ‘Betting’ and ‘Race Form’ guide ability, so in a nut shell it would make it the community page that offered all the exciting aspects of the game and leaving the kennel area for you to train, breed and look after your dogs.
The whole concept is pretty good and has vast details besides what I have listed; it really is a great alternative for greyhound racing fans and later after a conversion would be available to horse racing fans. Not only is it really addictive if you like these sports but it also has great potential for making a good income, I hope that it can be finished and maybe some day my faith and patience can be repaid.
The problem I have now is lack of money to pay for these services and the only way I can figure it out is to offer say 10% of the site to a coder and 10% of the site to a graphics designer hoping that between them and me helping in anyway that I can we finish it and make it a viable business. Of course if I were to convince a bookmaker to license it then that would be striking gold, but the option to run a real money side is also open to me and I would just take a small % of the racing fees and betting pools.
When I first got this site I made 1100 GBP in 3 weeks, the site then was like an empty shell compared to what it is now and one would think that the potential is quite large to make a good profit back from it, but it really boils down to finishing it and then marketing it which are two things that I have no clue about.
I am very sorry to take up so much time here, but when I start to talk about it my passion (no matter how much I oppress it) still surfaces, I really love the game, it’s like one of my children and this is why it hurts that we have both been used so much thus far. I know that there are reliable programmers out there but I have not had much luck finding them and this is entirely my fault, I was obviously never looking in the right places and with my eagerness to finish my dreams I let my guard down and paid the price.
Any help or advice you can offer guys I would really appreciate and I am not scared of hard work, If I had the time and money I would nearly consider trying to learn PHP coding myself just to try and finish it and have that security that eventually I will get it done, but unfortunately I know my time is running out this time and unless a miracle happens or I can get a new Job (to replenish savings and hire someone again) the end of the road in near.
If there is anything I can do for you please let me know, I am not a beggar and have enormous pride, I am in China and have a few contacts (none in the IT industry unfortunately) but printing and merchandisers etc and they are much cheaper than the west so if anyone needs a contact for these type of things (especially printing) then I will help, no problem.
Thanks very much and please do not worry if there is nothing much you can do, the very fact that you replied and offered has made my heart feel warm.
Steve
PS: can you believe that there is a McCawleys Irish Bar here in Shenzhen, seriously and they sell a nice pint of Guinness? Typical Irish luck, I can find a glass of Guinness in a desert but if I stuck my hand into a barrel of apples I would come out with a stone.
Gaming sites are beyond me. Never did one and don't ues them. Sorry, but I am sure there are people here who will help.
Think positive.
Marshall
2. Once you have done so, advertise in print publications that cater to breeders, betters, people involved in the industry, etc. Especially tiny little publications with very specialized audiences. As for online, go for direct advertising and links on specialized sites that you yourself respect. You have a very special, elite audience. You are going to have to reach them in forums that have their attention.
3. You need a consultant, not a guardian angel - you gets what you pays for.
4. Are you in China for some other reason, and taking advantage of the lower costs while you are there, or is this a full-time thing and part of your plan? One one hand, being there sure is the best way to use outsourcing - you don't face the problem that most have of not having a clue what is being done behind closed doors. On the other hand, it would seem to unnecessarily complicate things, especially with no previous development experience.
5. You've probably posted more detail about your project that is normally permitted here on WebmasterWorld. I'd give it 50/50 that it will be allowed to stand based on apparent sincerity, or axed as an appeal to potential investors.
It sounds, though, like you've done great niche targeting, have thought things out well, identified your competition and what it lacks, and are passionate about it. I wish we'd see more of the same here. Your head is in the right place. I hope things work out.
If there is anything I can do for you please let me know,
For every honest web person out there there are what, 1000 flaky posers? Hurricane I invite you to discuss this via sticky mail in your control panel, and I GUARANTEE you, not a cent will change hands until you are satisfied. This post in itself may violate policy, but this is important. I'm so sick of client abuse. :-(
I am very sorry to the staff at Webmaster World if I have done something wrong here and will gladly repost any or all in the right place.
I was thinking to join the supporters section for no other reason than to show my sincerity, I am not looking for any investors, I am well past that stage, it’s now a case of we either both make it (Me and the site) or we both go down trying.
I did not intend for my second post to sound like that and I am very sorry if it came across in anyway like that.
What generally happens after I have taken a knock with it, is deep down I start wishing I never got involved in the first place, then I go through a period where I try to forget it exists telling myself I have done all I can, but then gradually I start to rekindle my passion for the site and my dream for it like some story about a prodigal son.
I will refrain from offering any more details about the site here now as I certainly do not want to upset WW and I fully understand if they feel I have written something here against their rules. This was never my intention and I did not even think about that when I replied and added more detail as I was asked, but there’s no excuse now.
So is it ok to private message people about this?
Thanks again everyone for your words of encouragement and advice.
Steve
PS: I came to China 2 ˝ years ago, my wife is from Hong Kong and we settled here for a while. I have tried to get local programmers but to give you a short example I had one person turn up out of 50 replies to an advert I posted last year. This one guy turned up and we spent 2 hours together and the nest day I never heard from him again.
Generally, though, it's best to talk in generalities about their details of your own site or projects here. It can be a bit of pain trying to communicate clearly substituting "foo" and "example.com".
So, don't worry about it. Off to the (foo) races!
