Forum Moderators: phranque
Specifically, our TOS states you must be a productive member for three months before applying for some special features we offer to members in good standing. And yet time and again a new member's first question is how to gain access to these features.
The site's owner suggests I delete any member who asks a question that's clearly covered in the TOS. The admins and mods are worried that will give the website a reputation for being too harsh. My concern is it will cost us members I've worked hard to get via our good reputation, tons of inbound links, and high ranking in the SERPs for our keywords.
Is this just one of those things we have to put up with when running a successful website?
hit them again on their first log-in with the finer points.
if they still don't listen, then just hit them over the head :)
Shak
I think removing those people would be a bad plan. Too much possibility to lose many future great members due to a small misstep on their first post.
Shak's got it
hit them with a welcome email, highlighting the finer points.
Have some kind of cookie cutter email that you can send out maybe.
It's community building, it's not easy. I am far from an expert but I try to treat everyone with respect, be extra nice and welcoming to newer members when they are trying to get a feel for the community in question. It seems to work.
There is a certain amount of hand holding that is inevitable and regardless of your best attempts it will continue. You can't just nuke every member who asks a repetetive question, you wouldn't have any members after not too long.
hit them with a welcome email, highlighting the finer points.
That's a great suggestion, Shak. And it can be automated too which means even less work for me. Thanks.
You can't just nuke every member who asks a repetetive question, you wouldn't have any members after not too long.
That's one of my major concerns. The site owner doesn't understand this but I hope he will now.
Competitors no doubt use that or anything else they can to criticize. Those who appreciate the site will consider that you're running a "tight ship" and that it's professionally run.
>>The site's owner suggests I delete any member who asks a question that's clearly covered in the TOS.
That's what he has you for. He's wrong about that. It's not at all uncommon for people to *not* read TOS; it has to be expected.
>>My concern is it will cost us members I've worked hard to get via our good reputation, tons of inbound links, and high ranking in the SERPs for our keywords.
Communities are built, regardless of how big or successful they may become, one member at a time. It's more than a matter of public reputation. It's all about building relationships - and that happens one member at a time.
>>Is this just one of those things we have to put up with when running a successful website?
Yes, it sure is something that has to be put up with, though there are alternative solutions, such as pre-moderation of new member posts. Of course they may ask on their second or third or tenth post, too. There are people with high post counts who have never read TOS and some who commit infractions even if they can recite them backwards and forwards.
Everything that happens offers an opportunity for communication that can establish and solidify relationships. The simplest solution is to just delete those posts as they come up, and write to the new member welcoming them personally, telling them why the post was deleted and reiterating the provision in the TOS. Give them a link to it, and if necessary do up a simple post to point them to that briefly states the main points in a concise manner.
Turn it around into something positive. A little personal note written to people is one on one communication to an individual that recognizes them as an actual "person" rather than just an IP number and an entry in the membership database. Some of them may turn out to be the best members you've got in time.
An awful lot of community building goes on behind the scenes, and something as simple as the kind of posts you mention can be turned into an asset if it's handled well.
I still fubared anyway. :-)
It wasn't that I didn't read 'em, but that I didn't remember everything that they said.
On my site, what I do is have a series of semi-form-letter type things that I post to people that go along the lines of, "Hi $user, welcome to $site! I know there's a lot of stuff to get used to, but this is covered in the FAQ at $link_to_faq . Specifically, it's question number $question_number."
I don't think there's any way to force people to read the TOS/FAQ, but mostly they're embarassed when you point it out in a nice way.
If it's something that violates the TOS, then a progression of warning, then temporary ban, then permanent ban seems to work, with an immediate permanent ban for people who are obvious trolls and/or jerks.
You might also consider a newbie-only forum just for that purpose.
In part, it really depends on the site and the type of community you're trying to build. This would determine how harsh you should be more than anything else, I think. I'm just kind of a softie. :-)
Something along the lines of "Welcome to XYZ. I am sure you probably didn't realize it, but you aren't permitted to do blah blah blah at XYZ. I have made the changes for you, so you don't have to hunt down your post right away to do it. If you have any questions about the forums, you can contact me at any time, or you can read our simplified "rules" at www.domain.com/forum/rules.html"
Friendly is key, and will prevent them from getting mad and think that all the mods are on power trips ;) If you made a faux pas, how would YOU want to be treated so that you would actually come back and post again? That is how you should be treated the non-TOS-reading newbies.
Of course, there are always exceptions. Someone coming along and spamming every board with a get rich quick scheme gets an immediate ban :)
If it is such a problem, maybe you need to have a clearer link to your terms. You could add a link at the top of each page.
Or maybe you need an easier to understand version of the TOS. Some terms look like Greek to many - which is precisely why so many people just tick off the checkbox saying they read the terms, when they didn't read a single word. A "do and don't FAQ" might make it easier for people to know what they can and cannot do.
I can't say I agree with having so many rules and question the zero tolerance nature of some of them but I will always try to follow the TOS. I'm sure most reasonable people think the same way.
BTW I visit a few forums and this one has one of the most well behaved user communities I have seen.
Jenstar and spinnaker, I do feature a link to the TOS on every single page. After reading spinnaker's advice about keeping it simple I went back and read thru our TOS. It's far too complex and it's obvious I'm not good at being concise. The TOS is spread out over six long pages and it was too much even for me to read and understand it all in one sitting. The nature of the site makes it necessary to spell out the rules for each section of the site but there's got to be a way to consolidate it all into something that someone can easily read and understand.
JollyK, a forum for newbie questions where you're not criticized for failing to read and understand the TOS, FAQ and forum charters sounds like a great idea.
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Agreed! Things like where should I post this? Or can I post something like this? etc.
From the standpoint of marketing or accounting, members may mean numbers, demographics and profit, but for people "out front" interacting, in all cases it takes having a mindset of serving the needs of the members. That's how I see it, anyway.
People who actually do moderating have all kinds of different reasons for doing it. In some it can be a paid situation and it's just a job, with some it's being in a position of enhancing their credibility and gaining professional advantage in some way. Then there are people who absolutely love community work in and of itself - and it generally shows.
>>a forum for newbie questions where you're not criticized for failing to read and understand the TOS, FAQ and forum charters
There's no reason for there to be criticism in public forums, that's dysfunctional. But an open forum, while it could be helpful in some cases for certain subject matter, could open a can of worms better kept shut in most cases. There would be people pulling every single thing that's covered by TOS as not being allowed. That's reality - if they can, they will.
If the TOS is too long, which sometimes has to be for legal and other reasons, there can be an abbreviated version posted with simple posting guidelines. Or a static, brief version of a posting FAQ in simplified terms. If the current TOS isn't serving the members' needs, give them an additional document that will. Most things that happen are generally repetitious and can be covered briefly and simply.
People are stupid, and many are intent on staying that way. A glass half empty attitude will only make it worse. You are 100% right to be concerned about that. The follow-up welcome is an opportunity for you to reiterate what's important. As has been suggested, the TOS is a waste of time. I never read them because they are rarely helpful in any way, or not worth the trouble of slogging through. Make sure the FAQ's are prominent enough and not tucked away where they can be too easily ignored.
If they truly are helpful, move them front and center.
