Why do all the big wigs use ASP?

[Conscientious Reject]

I have been doing some research. I am familiar with HTML, CSS, Javascript, PHP, XML, XSLT, and MySQL. It seems to me that I can get all the cool functions that ASP websites embrace with by just sticking with these. If there is so much hype about these applications, interfaces and scripting languages. Then why do most the big interent sites use ASP. I am looking into learning about it as well, but I would rather grasp it's concept first.

Thanks

[aspdaddy]

In a nutshell the database products have been benchmarked for performance, the skills are widely available in the marketplace and the vendors are well established, resourced etc.

[txbakers]

ASP (Active Server Pages) allow you to access a database, and generate dynamic content in a variety of ways.

It's pre-installed on Windows webservers and runs native on Windows servers.

You can do many of the same functions using PhP or JSP or Cold Fusion, but those require separate installs on Windows servers. PhP sometimes runs natively on Linux servers.

[carguy84]

Also, the content management system of most of these big sites have long roots when there wasn't much else out there besides MSFT(predating PHP and it's ease of implementation) in the post cgi-bin world.

[Conscientious Reject]

Thanks for all the great input.

[flyerguy]

Because the guys with the MCSE cards get all the chicks. :)

[drhowarddrfine]

I'm not aware of any bigwigs that use asp. In fact, in my area, Boeing, Edward Jones, and all the big companies are hiring and none are looking for asp/.net or any MS stuff.

[flyerguy]

"Microsoft's Internet Information Server (IIS) is the most common Web server in the Fortune 500, powering 208 sites or 41 percent of the list"

[Easy_Coder]

that and .net has been adopted by something like 48% of the top 500. That was mentioned at PDC.

[drhowarddrfine]

"Microsoft's Internet Information Server (IIS) is the most common Web server in the Fortune 500

And who sponsors PDC?

[mattglet]

And who sponsors PDC?

It doesn't matter who sponsors it, if it's a fact then it's a fact.

[mrMister]

"Microsoft's Internet Information Server (IIS) is the most common Web server in the Fortune 500

And who sponsors PDC?

You need to read a few chapters further in your Penguin big book of conspiracy theories.

You can check the facts for yourself by visiting the web sites of the Fortune 500 companies and checking what web server they are using.

You should really be asking who sponsers the Fortune 500, and the answer to that would be AOL Time Warner.

Considering that AOL Time Warner have sued Microsoft for Anti-Trust, I doubt they'd be rigging the Fortune 500 list in Microsoft's favour.

However, don't let that stop your conspiricy theories. The Anti Trust suit might just have been a clever ruse by the Illuminiti just to put you off the scent because they knew you were on to them.

:-D

[mrMister]

With regards to why the big companies use ASP. In my opinion it's cheaper.

There's a larger supply of Windows programmers and that brigs labour prices down, so it's cheaper to maintain.

Also, in my opinion, development in ASP is faster than in any other web oriented programming language.

There may be competing platforms that are free (as in beer) to opbtain, but saving £2,000 on the software is a drop in the ocean compared to the development and maintenence costs of a large web site.

[flyerguy]

And with MS, when your server crashes you have one entity to curse and swear at, not an anonymous pool of bedroom hackers as with the open source stuff. :)

[flyerguy]

I'm not aware of any bigwigs that use asp. In fact, in my area, Boeing, Edward Jones, and all the big companies are hiring and none are looking for asp/.net or any MS stuff.

This means that their Microsoft stuff is running flawlessly and thus they don't need to hire staff to fix what's not broken. :)

[drhowarddrfine]

No, it doesn't. They don't use MS stuff. I looked into this when I first got interested in web stuff and everyone I talked to said no one uses MS stuff except on the desktop.

Who sponsors/runs PDC is significant because if you are going to MS to find the best product to run, MS is not going to send you to Java/Apache/Linux, etc.

Last report is almost 80% of the web does not run on MS software. I agree that it's possible they use .net/asp because it's easier to use than Perl but I do not know how all these companies use it.

I have a couple of hours to kill this morning so I think I'll try and do a little research.

[flyerguy]

Last report is almost 80% of the web does not run on MS software. I agree that it's possible they use .net/asp because it's easier to use than Perl but I do not know how all these companies use it.

Well, last report also showed something like 71% of my users are still using internet explorer as a browser. The choices of the masses are not by definition the best choices.

When you point out '80% of all web sites' it should be considered that many, many, many websites are:

a) not for profit/hobby sites
b) educational
c) 'businesses' in a limited sense (aka the website IS the business, with no extensive business structure behind it)

These types of websites would naturally choose open source freeware, it is likely the only option.

[mattglet]

90% of all statistics are made up.

[aspdaddy]

No, it doesn't. They don't use MS stuff.

They do use it, like most the city banks and pharma r&D do then they get ibm global to maintain it with m$ contractors, thats why they dont hire m$ skills.

Though they do use Unix for the more important stuff they do :)

[Easy_Coder]

Who sponsors/runs PDC is significant

Ah, I get it... so they're lying to make us all by Microsoft products.

[drhowarddrfine]

Of course. At least let's say they are manipulating the number to their benefit. All advertising does it.

[Easy_Coder]

i was being sarcastic... i don't have any reason to believe that they're lying.

[encyclo]

ASP/IIS is popular amongst the Fortune 500 - but not necessarily the top 500 web companies. Berkshire Hathaway has not much more than a one-page site, so how relevant is it? So why do they choose Microsoft? Because MS are corporate-friendly, and when the website is not a primary source of revenue the companies can just leave their usual Windows sysadmins to set up and manage their site.

Compare the stats for the Fortune 500 and the top 500 sites in Alexa and you'll see a very different story, and in neither case is it a useful guide to what is best for your site.

[drhowarddrfine]

In a way you are making a point that I've been saying about MS for a while. They are now about catering to the big companies while forgetting the rest of us, including mid-size and smaller companies. If they make one sale to a biggie then it's millions but the rest of us are just pennies. MS has become the IBM for the big guy.

This could be a problem for them in the near future if another company decides to cater to us (Google?).

[macrost]

So, back to the original post.

It seems to me that I can get all the cool functions that ASP websites embrace with by just sticking with these.

Tis true, but there are some things to take into account. MySQL - Last I looked, it still doesn't support stored procedures, which help to greatly reduce SQL injection attacks (if you are even aware of such). I'm not saying that stored procedures are the holy grail, just a chink in the full armor body suit that you need to be thinking about.

XML - Unless you are using PHP 5, last I looked, it was a PITA to actually send an XML request to a server, receive the response, then either load an XSL stylesheet to transform your XML result set, or just parse through it manually. (Is it SimpleXML thingy in PHP 5?)

Regardless, you will use what you are comfortable with. I currently work as an ASP.NET development programmer for one of the largest financial institution software companies in the Nation. We are celebrating our 30th anniversary and are a full M$/IBM shop.

Take it for what you will.

[drhowarddrfine]

MySQL does use stored procedures now.

[john_k]

"Big wig" companies do a lot of programming that is not web-related and so may already be heavily invested in the MS platform. If the websites need to tie into other internal systems, it is easier to do it with the same set of tools. Also, if they already have developers that know that language and tool set, it doesn't make sense to use something else.

Since they probably already own enterprise licenses for the tools, the cost of deploying one more system on that language is not high. On the other hand, if they opt to use a different toolset (even if it is free or low-cost) the question of "who is going to maintain it" comes up. If all of their internal developers are already working with VB/C++/C#/SQL Server, the long-term maintenance costs are spread out among several systems. Deploying a "renegade" system will require hiring one or more new people that can maintain it (or forking over money to cross-train existing employees).

VB was the tool that really let corporations develop custom desktop applications to match their work processes. Consequently, many large corporations have a lot of developers that work with the MS toolset.

Don't think that this chicken-and-egg situation is overlooked by MS. They spend a lot of time and money courting developers and IT managers. Their certification program, the routine overhauls of the entire "languages" of VB and C (++/#), the upgrades to the developer IDE, etc. are all calculated to keep developers locked in to their products: If most of the work requests you get are on the MS platform, then you want to stay up to date on the MS platform. If you take the time to stay up to date on the MS platform, it is difficult to delve into or keep in touch with other languages and platforms.

[Easy_Coder]

MySQL does use stored procedures now.

with serious bugs... see the recent InfoWorld review from the Dec edition.
- Large Sprocs cause the database to lock up (and that's not the worst bug either)

I think john_k hit on something. VB!

VB was the worlds most popular programming language (might still be). So it's only natural for that development community to recommend and move themselves and their companies into other microsoft technologies. Picking up ASP from VB involved almost zero learning curve.

[drhowarddrfine]

When I studied asp.net last year, I read several times in MS docs that they do not want people to use vb.net and are pushing everyone to C#. A lot of VB people were upset, especially because VB and VB.net didn't work quite the same, iirc. Another article I read elsewhere said that if MS could, they would not have ported VB to .NET at all.

[Easy_Coder]

read several times in MS docs that they do not want people to use vb.net

I've worked for a certified partner for the last 5 years and I've never seen these types of statements... feel free to post the link or sticky it to me.