Installing Lunux on an old machine

What are the problems in doing this?

[universalis]

OK here's the scenario: I have virtually no experience of installing or configuring Linux, but I'm not frightened of editing config files or doing stuff at a command prompt. I have an old Pentium 166 with 72mb of RAM which I'd like to make into a little intranet server for testing.

Here's my choice so far: Debian Linux (stable), with Apache 1.3.27, PHP and MySQL 4. I know that Debian is harder to install, but I like the idea of apt-get and I am guessing it will run better on such a slow machine compared to something like RH9.

I've got 2 questions:

1) What do you recommend as a lightweight window manager - KDE/Gnome would be too slow, wouldn't they? I would need to use this very rarely, because...

2) I want to manage the server remotely - ie. via a telnet or SSH from my main (Windows 2000) machine. How easy is this, and what do I need?

[jpjones]

If the machine is to become purely a intranet server for testing and training yourself on linux, then I would drop the idea of using a window manager completely.

OK, it might be a little easier to start with, but if your intention is to learn to manage linux servers remotely, then your tool of choice should be ssh (secure shell) for command prompt interactivity.

Also, if you are using a machine that old, I wouldn't one of the latest versions of Linux. Get an older version, such as RedHat 6/7 or the debian equivelant. They are much more memory friendly and will have better performance than something like RH9. Security issues won't be a worry initially either, as you're on the company intranet, and so protected from hacking attacks from the outside. You can then practice patching/compiling etc at your own leisure.

Just some suggestions
JP

[bonanza]

I'd agree on the window manager. Just tuck the headless box away somewhere and access it from your own desktop via command-line (like a real man. :) just kidding, no offense if you're not a man.)

Check out PuTTY [chiark.greenend.org.uk]

To connect remotely via SSH and/or telnet.

[universalis]

I've got Putty already, plus a Debian install CD [phy.olemiss.edu]. As for being "protected behind the company intranet", I actually work from home, so it will be on my home network (of 2 Win2K machines!). I'll want to be able to make a DSL connection to get packages, but it won't need to stay connected all the time.

Another dumb question - what's the best way of transferring files from the Win2k machine to the Linux server? FTP? A Samba share?

[jpjones]

what's the best way of transferring files from the Win2k machine to the Linux server? FTP? A Samba share?

Either!

If you want the ability to treat the box from your windows machine as another drive letter, then Samba is your way forward, but it will need configuring!

If you want to install an FTP server, then go ahead!

Another way to do it is via WinSCP, which transfers files similar to FTP, but via SSH instead, so you wouldn't even need the FTP server installing.

Its your call.
Of course, for knowledge purposes, I'd eventually experiement with all three, as they all have their uses.

JP

[universalis]

Ok... I've done the base install - trouble is, it doesn't recognise the network card! I've tried the man pages, plus a search on Google and on the Debian site but I'm not get anywhere fast (yes, I'm very new at this). I've got a "Compaq Integrated Netflex 3/P Contrller" (as identified by the WinNT4 install previously on the machine) in a Compaq Deskpro.

Where do I go to get drivers and/or information about how to install them?

[universalis]

An update - after a bit of furious googling, reading incomprehensible man pages, I have downloaded what may (or may not) be a driver for the network card of an ftp site somewhere in Denmark. Actually, I've got 2 files, tlan.c and tlan.h, plus a readme file which says to add them to the linux source directory and recompile the kernel (!). Copied them to a floppy disk, spent 15 minutes learning how to mount the floppy in linux, and I've now got them safely in a directory in /usr/local.

As for the "recompile the kernel", this is starting to look quite hardcore already! Does it sound as if I'm on the right track?

[dingman]

I have an old Pentium 166 with 72mb of RAM which I'd like to make into a little intranet server for testing.

Here's my choice so far: Debian Linux (stable), with Apache 1.3.27, PHP and MySQL 4.

Also, if you are using a machine that old, I wouldn't one of the latest versions of Linux. Get an older version, such as RedHat 6/7 or the debian equivelant.

All my sites are on a P166mmx with 128mb of RAM running Debian Stable. I use PostgreSQL rather than MySQL, but very much a simmilar setup. No problems.

Where do I go to get drivers and/or information about how to install them?

99% of the time (or so) the driver is part of the standard kernel source. Often, you don't even have to compile a new kernel, just figure out which module you need and insert it from the standard collection of kernel modules that came with your distro.

Figuring out which module can be a bit tricky. The first starting point for me is always 'lspci', which has all sorts of info about the components on your PCI bus. Without any arguments, the 'lspci' command will give you several one-line descriptions of the hardware it finds. On one of my machines, the lines for ethernet cards are:

00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) 
00:0d.0 Ethernet controller: 3Com Corporation 3c450 Cyclone/unknown (rev 30)

The driver for the first one is called '8139too' (It's a replacement for an older driver, and for a while both drivers were in the official kernel.) To see if it works, I could run the command 'modprobe 8139too' as root. If the command succeeds, then you've got a card that uses that driver on your machine. Go ahead and configure it. Once you know it's working, add the module name to /etc/modules and it will be loaded at boot time in the future.

The 3c450 is a little trickier, since it's driver is in fact '3c59x', which looks like perhaps it might be meant for 3com's 3c59x series of ethernet chips. In fact, it is, but it also works with the 3c450. I figured this out by reading the configuration help that comes with the kernel source - if you run 'make xconfig' in the kernel source directory, you can find the ethernet driver section, and click on the help buttons for likely-looking drivers. They usually tell you which cards they support, in terms of the chipset they are built on. Since that's a large part of how lspci describes the cards, it's quite useful.

If you find drivers that look promising listed in the source code, but get a message about not being able to find the module to insert, then you probably need to compile yourself a custom kernel. That's another topic in and of itself, so I'll leave that for later.

[tobyink]

Ignore all these people: you want a window manager. Without one, it is rather tricky to view 4 terminals at once!

As for all your hardware problems: consider switching to Mandrake. Better out-of-the-box hardware support than Debian. Plus, it has "urpmi", which is very similar to "apt-get".

[mack]

I would probably keep a window manager os some sort until you are set up and running and used to using the system.

Then you can drop it and start making more use of shell. Start using shell now then drop kde, gnome or what other GUI you are using. Makes the learning curve a little less steep.

Mack.

[universalis]

Many thanks for all the replies - especially dingman who gave a good rundown of what to look at. I now have a working network card! (no kernel recompile necessary, luckily).

Now I've got to set up the networking - I've got two windows machines, with IP addresses 10.10.10.100 and 10.10.10.99 (set up with the help of a friend who understands this more than me). I want the Debian machine to be 10.10.10.98, so I added this to the

/etc/network/interfaces

file:

iface eth0 inet static
address 10.10.10.98
network 10.10.10.0
netmask 255.255.255.0
broadcast 10.10.10.255
gateway 10.10.10.1

Then I typed:

ifdown eth0
ifup eth0

And I got the message "Giving autonegotiation more time" continually.

Have I got the above right, and do I need to do anything else to get this to work? (Bear in mind, I still don't have a window manager, but I am beginning to grasp the basics of using vi).

Thanks for all you help again! If I can get this to work, I'll be starting to consider moving my primary workstation over to Linux as well... One day, I may be Windows-free!

As for all your hardware problems: consider switching to Mandrke. Better out-of-the-box hardware support than Debian.

I agree that Mandrake may be better "out of the box", but this is a great learning experience for me. I'm going to stick with Debian for the moment, rather than switching distributions all the time. It may be harder to set up, but I'm making progress!