Forum Moderators: martinibuster
I'm going to drop the proverbial bomb here:
Don't link out! Just don't do it.
1. Visitors leaving the site thru the links
2. Pagerank
3. You wanted to link out but couldnt find a good reference to link to
IMHO unless you run a monopoly on a product/subject there's no reason not fork out a link for a different site.
/sidenote
did google used to link to other SE's results? maybe they're not as good a reference nowadays ;o)
If one does NOT link out, may end up creating a loop where surfers go nowhere. Search engines may deem this as a poor result and consider ways to prevent it.
Long term, it might be wise to tune to what search engines are trying to accomplish. This alone, would be more important than any benefit stemming from NOT linking. It is possible that SE may seek to reward those who link out then.
I believe that if you have an ecommerce site you shouldn't link out, at all. I'll stress the ecommerce angle here - any other site and I'll be the first to admit that I don't have a clue.
1. People will leave your site through external links
If the thought process is that linking to a good resource will benefit users then why not do something similar yourself? Don't copy it - just work from the same premises and build your own resource, make it better - this way you won't need to link to it. If it's too big, like a search engine etc, then just don't link to it. Opening the link in a blank window may also seem like a good idea but whats the first thing you do when a link opens in a blank window: "I've found what I'm looking for, I'll just close this other window down..."
Don't give people a reason to leave your site. They don't need an excuse. Your average Joe surfer is the most fickle animal ever - they don't even need an excuse to leave your site - so don't go so far as giving them one.
2. Pagerank will bleed through external links
I don't even need to go into this.
3. It looks unprofessional
On a site where you're trying to sell something you need to be harsh. Why are you linking to something else to help your visitors? Does that mean that you couldn't do it yourself? What if the site you're linking to has banners for one of your competitors? They could even buy an ad there because you link to it - it is bound to be "on topic". Also - link pages - they just aren't cool on an ecommerce site.
4. Concentration
That's a strange title, but I think it works. I believe that surfers are very single minded when they want to buy something. They're at your site and you've won the battle of getting them there - this means nothing unless they buy something from your site. When you see something in the corner of your eye which says "more widget information" it grabs your attention and you're gone.
5. Make yourself an authority
I know this sounds like a tall order from the Teoma book of optimisation but it is possible with a lot of hard work. If you're an authority on a subject then you won't have to link to people or have reciprocal links - they'll link to you because you're an authority. I realise that this can be hard when you're starting out but I would rather buy a link than reciprocate it - even on a new site. Well made and regularly updated sites have a way of growing organically as well.
6. Reciprocal linking problems with not linking out
Lots of webmasters get started by garnering reciprocal links. A lot of people probably have standard emails which they send out to other sites; trying to get them to link and offering to link back. There is a simple solution to this problem. Don't offer to link back. Just take that line out. Just try it. Not everyone comes to webmasterworld and not everyone (read: hardly anyone) has a clue about pagerank. It's easy to get jaded about this stuff.
7. Case Study
One of my sites has a PR 7 link from a page which only links to three other sites. Who is the link from? Our biggest competitor. Doh!
Don't link out! :)
Sorry about any spelling mistakes - I just had to do a clean install on my computer and I've yet to install openoffice...
I agree with some of your points. When it comes to a 'sales page' it does make sense to focus on your sales pitch and leave nothing but that on the page.
But I also think that the name of the game is longterm survival, not a quick sale today. If you plan to be on the SERPS for an extended period of time, it might be wise to play the game differently, perhaps sacrificing some of your traffic (through leaks).
A website's behaviour within a community -linking to facilitate the flow of information- may end up being a critical issue affecting how high you rank.
This is mere speculation that comes as a result of analyzing some research papers posted on WW recently. I may have gotten it all wrong though.
But if everybody adapted the attitude not to link out because they wish to preserve traffic/PR etc then no-one would link to anyone.
And as robertito62 said inadvertantly creating "a loop where surfers go nowhere" sint the idea of the Web that is indeed like a "web" as such. Whereby one site links to another.
Also, hypothetically would everyone not linking to anyone result in the downfall of the Pageranking system and similar ranking systems? As far as i understand it, it would.
As far as reasons not to link go, I think it very much depends on what your motives for linking are, i suppose, and what you wish to gain from linking. Which i think paynt mentioned in an earlier thread.
Just my input.
:)
I have several trainees building content and I always ask them to try to find at least one good high quality source to link out to for every info-content page they make. If nothing exists on-line I tell them to mention book/title/author. (mostly they are pages of which some data was used anyway).
I do not ask a reciprocal link back. I just think it makes sense.
I guess it depends on the industry your in, but in anything semi-scientific I think it just looks better/more authoritative if there are sources mentioned.
This set-up also helps when asking for one-way links. It is often extremely difficult to get links from governmental and edu sites because they have a policy of not linking to .com's and/or commercial sites. Showing your "independant strength" by not failing to link out to recognisable authorities helps in these cases.
Now when addressing possible algo-consequences, check the research papers.
Many mention link hoarding, link sinks or mutual admiration societies as leaning towards spam. As mentioned above, the web needs links, the search engine's algos need them and even non-outlinking webmasters need them :).
Outside Teoma, I have not checked the consequences, but I would be suprised if the major search engines would not build in some "thank you we will let this page rank higher" for a good link out.
Not linking out, except for your link farms or reciprocal links, also makes your site an identifiable non authoritative hub or authority, to be placed on the same heap as your link partners.
vita, can you expand on this please?
non authoritative hub or authority.
You need your content to be top quality, original and authoritative.
But you also need your linking structure to be top quality, original and authoritative.
I have yet to beleive in the quality of a book that presents highly original and qualitative information without having a good index/citation/source list.
If you predominantly go for reciprocal links, there is a big chance your linking partners will also mainly go for reciprocal links, probably with your same set of linking partners.
Possibly this identifies a nice community, linking-wise it does not however offer the web something new or special compared to your linking partners (the lot might as well have put all their pages in one site :)- and IMO that is how search engines might value predominant reciprocal linkstructures - as site internal).
A good hub links to authoritative sites.
An authoritative site is linked to by good hubs.
You might want to do a site or Google search on hubs and authorities - there are some interesting discussions.
To make this work you need:
1) good content,
2) a carefully-targeted prospect list, and
3) an attractively personalized "letter of approach"
Of those points I'd say #2 is most important. It may take considerable hunting, but the key is to find sites who will consider your content useful for their audience -- from *their* perspective, not yours!
There is little scope for improvement on the 2 word terms without an improvement in PR but the first terms with "location" generate a load of visitors and with no exit links.
To improve PR, a program of exchanging links would be required providing exit doors which the client has decided against. The excelent top #5 positions for all the main search terms (about 12 in all) that include location provide plenty of visitors and no exit routes.
So far this strategy is paying dividends in both visitors and conversions.
As a result of this, I am looking to implement the same policy for other clients with a similar strong "Location" bias.
Outgoing links on page designed to close a sale aren't a good idea IMO but to really be a complete site ya gotta have outgoing links. There is always valuable info out there that one site no matter how authoritative won't be able to cover.
"I have yet to beleive in the quality of a book ...... information without having a good index/citation/source list." - So it stands to reason that a sizeable portion of web users may take the same viewpont. How sizeable i dont know? but i certainly agree with what vitaplease is saying here.
If folk dont beleive in the quality of your site surely you lose out.
Also, one of the web's finest qualities, IMO, is to be able to share information with ease, isnt linking the best way to do this? As webmasters artent we responsible, in part, for making it easier for joe public to access this info. I think it benefits all, really.
As webmasters artent we responsible, in part, for making it easier for joe public to access this info. I think it benefits all, really.
In a word: no. My job is to create and mantain sites that make money and make it easier for joe public to spend money on said sites.
If one does NOT link out, may end up creating a loop where surfers go nowhere. Search engines may deem this as a poor result and consider ways to prevent it.
This just isn't true. I want a loop where surfers go nowhere but to my checkout - no search engine, to my knowledge, has ever penalised for this. Take a look at some of the most successful ecommerce sites out there and look for links out - you won't find any at all on most of them.
There is always valuable info out there that one site no matter how authoritative won't be able to cover.
This is true - but why point people to it? It just shows that someone else is doing what you are doing better than you, doesn't it?
I have to pick up on one more thing. Several replies have mentioned "sales pages". I don't think of one page on the site as the "money page" per se. I think of the whole site as a generator of sales - there is, of course, a page where you pays your money, but the whole site should trickle down to this one. If content or an individual page doesn't generate sales, why is it there? This is another one of my little mantras... :)
But back on the subject, if you follow the theory that a wealth of resources on a page instilling confidence in the user, then perhaps linking out could benefit you. If your site is money orientated then is not important that your clients feel comforatble with the product and the site? Thus buying with confidence?
I know that i like to have the wide range of information available to me, before im willing to give someone money. Then i feel i know what im getting.
But i suppose it boils down to what your site is about, ie commerce or info site, and what you hope to acheive from linking.
That might not make much sense, so pleae accept my apologies.
:)
You are right about showing people other resources which may mean they leave your site, but depending on which sector or industry you are in, you can make informational pages that can lead to non-buying sources which just give back-up data that support your information.
robertito62 pointed out the important issue, no use hugging your potential client within your site for ever, if he never arives first place because of not ranking high enough (unless your marketing is PPC). In my sector, for certain keywords, some of the toughest competition is from governmental and educational (university) sites. If you cannot beat them - join them.
Links* to your "sectors" high quality informational pages also gives the user a reason to bookmark your site. Maybe the visitor didnīt buy anything the first time, but you maybe next time...
* = should not be just some random links, but a small link "directory" with quality links near your sites topic.
Linking out could also improve your site status - you show you know the best recources...
The problems with many e-commerce sites is that they give no reason for the visitor to come back - a good links page is one reason and the costs for building one is nothing to compared to other "stickiness boosters".
"...This just isn't true. I want a loop where surfers go nowhere but to my checkout - no search engine, to my knowledge, has ever penalised for this. Take a look at some of the most successful ecommerce sites out there and look for links out - you won't find any at all on most of them..."
yes and no.
you may be correct, at present.
But I do not develop my insights by analyzing the algo or looking at successfull sites, even though it is a valid approach.
I'd rather anticipate changes that may take place by reading interviews from search engine honchos. Between lines you can pick up their thinking, which at some point will translate in practical modifications of the algos.
Search engines may not penalize closed loops today, but that does not mean that engineers are happy.
If you were the Google freshbot engineer, would you program the freshbot to revisit sites that do not link out, or would you happily take all the new external link suggestions from sites frequently adding new resource suggestions? (and would you revisit if every new suggestion leads back because of reciprocation)
I can see freshbot moaning and groaning running in circles not being able to get out of a site!
But what do i know?
Very true - it's a way to establish yourself as an authority - unlike unconscious "reciprocal linking" to irrelevant sites.
Also - does anyone here think that linking to authoritative websites in your field can give Googles robots the impression that your website is part of that field (/community/theme)? For instance, that a site about webdesign or SEO linking to WW has better chances of being categorized as a relevant website about webdesign/SEO. If not, could this become true in the (near) future with the SE's focus on semantic search?
It's like always being the last bloke to the bar in the pub. A stratergy that does well in the short term, but hasn't got a future. The web isn't any different to the rest of the business world, relationships are important.
The trick is to structure your pages so that the links page has a low pr therefore minimising 'leakage' to it.
Although this doesnt help much with attracting new reciprocal link partners i guess!
1. People will leave your site through external links
Yes. But what have you provided that will compel them to return?
Short-term thinking: Don't EVER let them leave.
Long-term thinking: They're going to leave anyway depending on where they are in the "buy" cycle. What makes you memorable? Quality of user experience.
More of the savvy users will do multiple visits to a site to determine if it's a match for them. They'll be researching competitors, price-point, etc. So "leaving" isn't the be-all and end-all: focus instead on providing the X (quality of user experience) that makes them return.
Vitaplease is dead-on with regard to credibility being established via external links. Think, too, of linking out to external sites that have favorably reviewed your product, site, etc. This assists your market in making their decisions.
Something else to think about (although I hate pop-ups too...): offer a truly valuable offer via pop-up that encourages repeat visits (e.g. coupon, free shipping, etc.).
2. Pagerank will bleed through external links
ARGH. Using PR to justify not providing an outbound link is just shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to user experience. The only question that should be asked (IMO) with regard to links (both kinds) is: How does this benefit my user? If it's of great benefit and your user would thank you for it... it should be woven into the appropriate page (with the appropriate content).
SE algorithms aren't cutting-edge. If you're thinking long-term of what "greater relevancy" for the user consists in, wouldn't it include being a great resource for that particular keyword phrase? Someday, SEs will develop a better algo that thinks more like humans do when it comes to relevancy. As a human, I don't penalize a site for providing useful links (but they do have to be useful). I tend to reward those sites with repeat visits because they're so useful.
And as stever correctly pointed out: PR is not equal to SERPs. I often think that PR is a fiendishly clever tool on Google's part to distract webmasters from more substantial issues. ;-)
3. It looks unprofessional
Yes, it can- particularly if laziness results in lumping all outbound links on a single page rather than inserting the outbound link where it's most useful to your user. If it's just lying in a bunch of links with no useful context, it's not helpful. However, check out some of the outbound links on places like Office Depot (e.g. bCentral and bizjournals.com). Yes, these are partnerships but they aim to serve Office Depot's users- and thus, everyone can win.
Likewise, Amazon also links out to partners such as Target where there's a good fit.
4. Concentration
Yes, the surfers are there to buy. However, if you're building the relationship in the long-term, you're not threatened by their exits. Particularly if you've already covered the exits with compelling reasons to return. As said earlier, if price is a huge issue, they'll be doing comparisons. Price isn't always the issue; maybe they'll return because your site is easier to use, more helpful, has a better return policy, etc.
It however remains true that you do NOT want outbound links at the crucial purchase page. But that's quite different.
5. Make yourself an authority
I'm not really sure who rules in terms of ecommerce sites so perhaps edit_g takes this one... but in terms of non-ecommerce sites, all the "authorities" I know... e.g. Jakob Nielsen, Doc Searls, Dan Gillmor, etc. link out. And don't suffer for it.
6. Reciprocal linking problems with not linking out
I actually agree here. I don't offer to link back where it isn't a mutual match. Example? An educational software company might be a good match for a particular school's students (or a particular program). However, it's not in the interests of the education software's users to see a link to the school. EOD, your users' needs should determine who you approach for links- and who you agree to link to.
More times than not, there are better reasons to link than not to. I hate seeing people afraid to link to excellent resources for their users because of beliefs regarding algo penalties. In the end, I believe (and have seen this rewarded in reality) that if you build for the user and not for the PR (and assuming you do it "right"), the sales will follow. (That also assumes a certain value on the product, etc.)
I'll end here 'cause I'm feeling slightly disheartened that the original post of this was lost (due to a dropped connection on my end) and that (sigh) was better-written (as this is codged from memory).
