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Recently I have heard that SEs do not give any importance to incoming links from articles' and links' directories. Do article submission and link submission to directories still hold any importance for better search engine rankings?
There's some useful threads here on what's a Quality directory, and which directories to avoid.
And those that focus on Search Engines and links - rather than visitors and sites - are best avoided.
As well as no benefit, there can be significant risk.
The same is true of the vast majority of article farms; you help them by submitting your site, they very rarely help you in SEO terms, and most don't even give you a handfull of referrals. TIP: take a look at the kind of articles they hold; if they are mostly cr*p, then your article would be very wasted there - unless, of course, it's cr*p - then it would be no more wasted than the others, but still no help :)
And those that focus on Search Engines and links - rather than visitors and sites - are best avoided.
I agree... But I also believe that it's possible for a directory to serve both the visitors and the webmasters without lowering quality or trust (trust from both users and SEs).
I'm the owner of a small directory (non-profit, non-english niche directory).
In my category pages I don't use nofollow, redirect scripts or anything that deny the listed websites benefiting from a listing (why should I?). I even do my own unique reviews based upon the content of every single website in the categories, approx. 400-600 letters per review.
I only allow links to quality web sites in the directory. Websites irrelevant to the niche/theme or low quality websites are rejected so fast you wouldn't believe it. Quality and relevancy of the listed websites in my directory is an extremely important issue for me -- I don't sell links (period).
My directory objective therefore is to gather links pointing at quality websites so that directory users can find a way to quality content and resources within this niche.
Just call me a philantrop. But I work on this project because I like it and because I see the need for such a directory. If it costs me a couple of hundreds of dollars per year and some of my spare time -- so be it.
Money isn't everything to me.
Anything quality works on the content being kept a certain way, this means you cannot afford to let off-content sites in, or your directory will lose it quality value for good. Once you promote this thing, the submissions will become a major problem so large that you'll be forced to charge to keep the off-target stuff out, to maintain quality and search value.
Your site exists on the user experience, and the moment visitors begin finding hoards of results that interfere with their search, they won't return, you will lose the quality search power, and the directory will be useless. Also the spam you will get from idiots adding their porn, gambling, affiliate, adsense and drug sites will destroy what you are trying to build. Charging is necessary to stop spam dead, plus you will reach the stage where this will eat into your time like you won't believe, this will lower your boredom threshold and you will ask yourself that question of: "why you are doing this".
I've got to ask why are you doing this? Do you think hoards of traffic will visit, and that millions will buy from you? After all Amazon has a site, and they probably make billions from it, and that means all websites can. You see where I'm going with this right - just be careful is all.
I hope you aren't chasing easy money, it doesn't sound like you are and as long as you maintain that vision, depending on the niche - it might work out for you, but directories these days, don't usually survive for even a few years, they are difficult to monetise, not promoted at all, or very badly or even if the niche area is good, the expertise and ideas are never there to succeed. Also the main traffic igniter and funds are a big problem, as the guts to spend seed money to get the directory it's necessary promotion isn't there.
The thought of losing 1000's is too much of a risk, and many give up. You need to have everything so carefully planned, and promotion in place and that's before you will know the kind of traffic this will generate. Your journey in the directory game hasn't even started yet, and it's too easy to lose everything.
In the early stages of this, it will be mostly a time thing, and lord knows that's a heavy burden to carry - it will test you like you won't believe, and some! If, you have a good idea behind this, IF you do, next will be the constant promotion and financial problems involved to take this thing to the the next level - but most directories never reach this stage, never mind the first stage I talked about.
I wish you luck though.
[edited by: Maxnpaddy at 12:52 pm (utc) on Oct. 13, 2007]
Your site exists on the user experience, and the moment they begin finding hoards of results that interfere with their search, they won't return, you will lose the quality search power, and directory will be useless.
I'm very aware of this. And it is exactly why I have builded my directory (from scratch -- no standard directory scripts) in a way that keep spam sites, porn sites or any other irrelevant sites out of my directory -- the key is pre edited listings ;)
Every link is pre edited, by me, to ensure that only links pointing at relevant and good quality websites is to be found in the category pages by the users.
I believe this strategy saves time for me, in the end, because spammers or webmasters with "off-content" don't stand a chance of getting their links in my directory. The submit page clearly explains that this isn't another "Get your websites listed in minuttes for free" directory but is a pre edited directory.
The directory management system I've build simply won't let any links in before they have my approval :)
The criteria for getting a link listed in my directory is relevancy and quality -- not a matter of a webmasters abillity to pay for a listing.
Instead I'm building my directory in my spare time because I like to build websites that people can make good use of -- and in niches where my interests belongs.
Therefore my goal is to only enjoy the project as it is and to see what I can make it become.
Also the main traffic igniter and funds are a big problem, as the guts to spend seed money to get the directory it's necessary promotion isn't there.
I don't have any plans on spending money on promotion. The only promotion I'm spending (time) on is on SEO. And so far I see some fairly good results of my work.
Maybe later I can make enough money on adds, just enough to pay for the hosting of the directory.
I wish you luck though.
Thanks and thanks for sharing your thoughts :)
[edited by: OutdoorMan at 2:05 pm (utc) on Oct. 13, 2007]
Any money she does make from the low placed ads barely covers the hosting and if that were to stop dead, she would still run the directory.
I believe there should be an effort based on goodwill from everyone.
The directory management system I've build simply won't let any links in before they have my approval :)
You will spend your life approving listings - yup, I had a foolproof system too, until I found out the time involved in managing the tool that was supposed to manage...... and that affected my life a great deal. It won't solve the time issue for you, and it's a major issue that will determine your site's success and longevity - not something you can afford to ignore or devalue. Setting up something that automates listings takes no talent whatsoever, neither does writing cheques.
I don't have any plans on spending money on promotion.
This sounds familiar. Chances are my company is listed with you, and have now found out that you aren't planning on attracting traffic.
Maybe later I can make enough money on ads, just enough to pay for the hosting of the directory.
Not without huge exposure you won't. But let's say you're going to try this anyway - first you got to launch it, and you'll find many will visit but not buy. Then what are you going to do?
The directory industry is tough to survive in, and has been hurt by guys chucking up useless sites that don't serve advertisers adequately enough. Visitors and advertisers are understandably nervous whenever a new directory enters the marketplace, and rightly so.
Saying that you intend to NOT promote, leaves me stunned. Promotion is key to it's success, and what about the sites listed, what will they think about it.
[edited by: Maxnpaddy at 3:13 pm (utc) on Oct. 13, 2007]
I've no doubt at all that a niche directory can provide a superb resource for its sector without a fee, without marketing - and without serious damage to the sheer enjoyment of doing it.
I'm not sure where the dividing line comes, but I suspect it's about that level where checking out new sites becomes a chore, and weeding out spam gets frustrating. But in a small niche - no problem.
Most of the best niche directories are no-fee labours of love, and long may that be true.
This sounds familiar. Chances are my company is listed with you, and have now found out that you aren't planning on attracting traffic.
That's not correct. I do have plans attracting traffic and I know that it can be done by the use of simple SEO. I have another small niche website (not a directory), only about 14 months old, and it attracts good and relevant traffic -- only by the use of SEO and by having unique quality content. And traffic is increasing :)
Most of the best niche directories are no-fee labours of love
Maybe it's because the no-fee niche directories keep on having focus on good content and quality websites instead of keeping an eye on the money? I think so.
Most of the best niche directories are no-fee labours of love
Are they all free? Seems to me the only ones that matter (apart from dmoz) all charge from $10 upwards of $60. Some charge more.....
so it looks like the ones that do matter, will cost to be listed. But none of them advertise, so how do we all feel about paying for nothing. I mean, the vast majority are built for general sites, a few designed for webmasters sites and the rare gold nugget within the niche sector. Apart from the few quality ones, I ask myself why would anybody return - what reason, why, what advantage is being offered here besides the basic link value..
Take Alex Tew and his Million dollar page thing - a nice idea, but why would someone select that over and above a search engine, I can't see even the long term value of that, even with it's media coverage, so what chance has a Joe bloggs directory. I'm saying the directory would need to be so perfect and be valuable that any link/site listed would get instant respect, ROI and presence just for being accepted. I really think passion is a dangerous thing, with much time being wasted for what, personal ego and satisfaction?
Nobody will come up to you in the street and thank you for setting up this directory. Your contact page will not be overloaded with thank you mails, and everyone you tell about this directory will put it down so fast as a failure (even if it's got potential) you won't believe. So I am concerned why so many of these directories exist today, the personal investments and costs are huge, too much for a feeling of pleasure.
So what happens when a niche directory, a passion etc suddenly gets popular? I can just see a ton of webmasters jumping all over it just for the freebies, the spam will be intolerable and the time spent fighting this problem alone will force the owner to shut down.
And the only way to stop it, will be to charge fees. If fees aren't charged, the spam can't be stopped and the directory passion then stops as a pleasure, and is now stressful.
Any directory won't survive on passion without a great deal of help to run it, and that costs. I like the idea of running something for passion, but what is the end result of all this work and passion - people's thanks? You still got to promote it fairly heavily or nobody will know it's there, so your passion will be for nothing.
Most of the best niche directories are no-fee labours of loveAre they all free? Seems to me the only ones that matter (apart from dmoz) all charge from $10 upwards of $60. Some charge more.....
No, that's not the case; we are specifically talking here about niche directories that are specific enough to allow for 'enthusiast' management - and the great majority of these are free; even some that do get significant marketing and promotion input.
But a Quality Directory - just like any other quality site - actually needs very little help once it gets going. Their success works on the fact that they are recognized by their niche as an authority (an assessment which may or may not be shared by Google)
"The ones that matter" depends, of course on your POV, but many of the general directories that do have fees, don't really matter to man nor beast, and paying the fees is simply throwing money away.
When you consider that there are many tens of thousands of directories, and probably a few hundred worth even thinking about paying for, that's cause for serious care when spending money.
With directories, fees charged are very rarely proportionate to quality - and even more rarely proportionate to marketing and promotional effort by the owner.
There are certainly some directories where the owner has closed down, or effectively abandoned ship, due to abuse and spam, but as software improves, editors are increasing able to block spam, or at least make it more difficult and - of course - easier to delete than for the spammer to register.
And increasingly, for niche directories, nofollow is a tool that neither they nor their users have a problem with. Blame spammers for that!
For a niche directory, fees are unlikely to be the answer; they need to list sites strictly by value and quality as judged by ther community - or they cease too be useful.
One response I've seen is to close completely to submissions; just add sites they identify - or friends do.
But I accept that I'm generalizing; I am sure that there are some very successful niche (specialist) directories that have fees. But far more don't - and won't.
