Forum Moderators: martinibuster
How do I deal with those sites that do not reply - i.e. those sites that have gained a free incoming link and can't be bothered to reciprocate. They might not know the value of a good incoming link but I sure do!
I want to write to them and prompt them to reciprocate but of course in a way which doesn't suggest an ultimatum i.e. I don't want to say, 'if you don't link to us, we shall remove our link to you!'.
BUT, I do want the letter to be effective. I really don't know how to approach this and I'm amazed at the general reluctance to play ball. Our site has a PR of 5 which should be regarded as a good link.
Any ideas, friends?
The reason for my request, I explain, is because we get a NUMBER of customers/visitors asking specifically about this and we NEED to respond to them with some QUALITY info.
I always make my request to the SALES department NEVER the webmaster.
After receiving the requested info, I shift into second gear by writing back telling them it's so GREAT we want to even put a LINK on our site. Ask them if it's OK. (Again, all done through the SALES department of the company.)
When they say "yes", I then of course, send them our link with description. Why would they not want to reciprocate when they said "yes" to us linking to them?
Reasons for this approach:
1) A request to any sales department for product or service info is never denied.
Your inital contact e-mail gets answered. It opens up a dialog immediately.
2) Sales is THE most important department of any company. When a directive comes down from them to include your link it usually happens.
3) The easiest sale you can ever make is to another salesman because sales people think sales.
Webmasters think technical.
A sales pitch to a salesmen is understood in terms of benefits.
A sales pitch to a webmaster is just that. A sales pitch.
I have just had a similar problem.
I added a site to my directory a while ago.
In the response letter i asked kindly if they could add a return email on their site.
They didn't and they have probably the worst links section on the web - home pages and generally poor web sites.
Today though i got a 'We are currently listed on your site. Please consider us for your award'
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
All taking and no giving.
I am about 5 days away from sending my first batch of follow-up letters and I'll report back with progress.
One thing I notice about these webmasters is that many don't really apreciate the value of a good link. When I get a request from a related site, I put the link up immediately - no hanging around, its just too important.
But I've had a few emails saying that my link will be reciprocated 'soon' and I can't help thinking that there will be some that have no intention of doing it and hope that I will forget about it. Thats their mistake because my spreadsheet is water-tight, air-tight and nuclear-proof ;) I won't be forgetting a god damn thing!
'Reciprocal link request from mysite.com' (as per original email)
it will read;
'yoursite.com links'
I think it is more likely to be opened with this subject heading. If I used the same subject, there will be some who may skip past it because they recognise it from the first letter and they thing they can deal with it another time (i.e. 2002), and then there may be others who don't generally like reciprocal link requests but may be persuaded if the letter is good and there is something in it for them -- you don't want either of those people dumping the mail before they read it. The fact that the subject mentions their domain name - and its an incomplete statement - will hopefully arouse a bit of curiousity.
Also, the original letter will be tagged on to the bottom of the follow-up letter (i.e. forward the old letter to the same recipient) so that they can easily remind themselves what I had said.
Its playing the percentage game I suppose - but by not leaving anything to chance, you can surely stack the odds in your favour.
A few of you have said words to the effect, 'move on to the next and don't worry about it' - this is fine as far as I am concerned and I agree as long as I have tried my very best in my 2 approaches and not settled for a half-hearted attempt. Only then will I happily say 'Okay, its a dead duck, lets move on'.
1) I'm annoyed by requests from Webmasters who haven't read my submission guidelines. For example, I make it clear that I don't link to travel agencies, but some travel agents submit URLs anyway. Why do they waste my time and theirs?
2) I'll never link to a site just because it links to mine. Conversely, I won't NOT link to a site just because it doesn't link to mine. My decision on whether to link is based primarily on whether I think my readers will find the linked site useful or interesting.
3) I write my own annotations. If people want to *suggest* link annotations, that's fine, if only because it distills the essence of their site for me--but saying "Here's the text to use for the link" is bad manners. (If you want to dictate what's said about your site, buy an ad!)
4) IMHO, it's foolish to misspell a linked site's name or intentionally make an error in the URL for the purpose of getting a response from the linked site's Webmaster. Such errors imply a lack of professionalism and reduce your chances of getting a reciprocal link (at least from me).
Side note: I recently relaunched my site as an independent site after leaving About.com, and I've been writing to Webmasters with requests that they update their links. I've found that Webmasters of commercial or semi-commercial sites tend to be more responsive than people who operate "hobby sites" are. Many of the latter are slow to respond (if they respond at all), probably because they spend little if any time on site maintenance.
Bigger more professional sites don't seem to respond as quick.. I still have 2 commercial sites still linked to my old re-direct page :)
The best way to approach people to link to you is to see to it that your site content is beneficial for their target audience. Point it out to them how their visitors can make use of your site.
Also, point out how your intended audience can benefit from their site. This way, the webmaster will be able to realize that putting a link to your site will be actually helpful for both of you.
However, I feel that putting the link first on your site and telling the webmaster that you have placed a link to their site and in return you wish them to link to you, is rather "inappropriate". Why? It somehow gives a pressure on them. And most webmasters don't want to take pressure like that. Do you? Why not simply say that you are planning to put a link and you would also appreciate it if they consider linking to your site too.
Another thing. The idea that you link to sites that are related to your services but not your competitor is quite reasonable. But, shouldn't it be fun if two competitors have reciprocal links. The search engine will most likely rank it a higher "importance" and "relevance" since both of you are on the same business.
And try to consider forging strategic alliance to several companies that have the same client base as yours. You can get more customers from them than search engines can give you. This is my opinion.
Ok. Here is my last words. We are planning to include a category on our links page called "other web designers". Anyone interested? You are not required to place a link back, but of course you know what is appropriate. :)
That's it. Take care all.
Sincerely,
Allan S. Hugo
Thank you for your contribution.
If you are curious about the url snip please see your sticky mail at the top of the screen.
Of 33 emails sent, I will shortly have 3 links.
Another 2 look like possibles - dialogue in progress.
3 responded, but we (they or me) rejected the idea.
The rest - 25 - totally ignored me.
- so maybe 10% success rate is par?
Cheers,
Chris
How are the rest of you doing with you're linking campaigns?
Dear Webmaster,
I found your site while surfing the internet. Its great by the way and I particularly liked (fill in the blank)! I would love for our site to be added to your links page for (whatever you sell) at [yourlinkspage.com....]
We provide what I think is one of the most detailed and informative sites for (whatever you sell) on the internet ... but then again, as author and webmaster, I have admit to being slightly biased. If you would be so kind as to consider our site for inclusion on your links page, I would be very grateful.
I have already added your link to our site at [myaddresshere.com....] I wrote the description for your site based on the information I found on your index page, please feel free to suggest a change to the description and category.
Our site information is:
Title: Name of Site
Description: 25 or 30 words.
URL: [myaddresshere.com...]
Sincerely,
Whomever
Company Name
e:mail address
<snip> link exchange request Charter [webmasterworld.com]: This is not a forum to trade or ask for links with people.
[edited by: paynt at 1:52 pm (utc) on July 27, 2002]
Thanks for your post and a big welcome to Webmaster World. I hope you’ll take the time to read my welcome letter [webmasterworld.com].
I’m glad you bumped this discussion. It still has valuable information and your contribution fits right in.
Lets say thursday/friday afternoon 3 pm their local time?
- end of the week people tend to be more relaxed.
- same goes for end of the day
- they will have gone through the normal pile of emails already.
- some webmasters do their adjustments in the weekend
any thoughts?
at any rate, if I am to be given such letter, the best day would be Thursday (our time).
Friday, I usually plan out what to do for the next week.
Take care everyone!
Original posted:
"...Anyone thought about the best time to ask for links?
Lets say thursday/friday afternoon 3 pm their local time? ..."
Recently I registered my domain and moved, I thought that I would have a lot of trouble getting sites that have linked to me to change their links. Suprising it was not much of a problem.
It took me 2 nights (basically made off a template, with some personal touches) but so far response has being very quick..."Major" (by my standards anyway) sites that update daily,weekly have responded almost immediately which is no big surprise, but even smaller sites that update maybe once a year, have also responded quite well.. I'm very pleasantly suprised.
I suppose it much harder to get them to link, but once they have linked, it's so much easier.
Still waiting for one of my ODP listing to be changed though :(
I must receive daily between 5/10 link requests, some are generic some are humanised generic (like most of above). All of them though go into the trash, without me even looking at their sites, and all of them all say pretty much the same thing.
I suggest being honest - YOU WANT A LINK FROM ME - that is it. This does not mean you want to link to me, nor does it mean that you like my site (please!), or anything else it only means you want ME to link to YOU.
So what I suggest is being simple and stop giving all this amateur (****) and very bad sales talk, and just be honest.
1) A you want a link
2) You would like a free one - is this possible?
3) If not how much does it cost? Hey for all you know he might say a dollar a year! You have no idea but ask.
4) Do not ever tell me you have linked to me and now you want a link (unless you happen to be CNN or the BBC).
But before you do any of this check that they have a links page. One of our sites does not but I still receive these emails!
Do not ever tell me you have linked to me and now you want a link
Demands can be a bit obnoxious, but if it's just a request coming from a site that has already linked... why do you find that offensive?
It might seem strange coming from someone who's got sales background, but again maybe not so strange. When you think about it, a link exchange letter *is* a sales letter of sorts. Personally, I'd rather be dealt with straightforwardly than have someone give me a sales pitch and pretend that it isn't one.
- You want to link to me? - great, you can even tell, me but don't tell me you now want something in return.
Imagine snoozing off on a Sunday afternoon, and someone walks up your driveway cleans your car, rings your door bell and then asks you to either give him US$ 10, clean his car, or he will throw all the dirty water back all over it!
- You want me to link to you? - great tell me, be honest open and considerate and I will consider it.
Imagine the same guy above, ringing your door bell first and saying, hey I clean cars for a living and would love to clean yours, blah, blah, blah.
I'm not talking about the very transparent manipulation tactics, or classic "hostage" techniques such as... "I've added a link to your site and will leave it up if you link back to mine, otherwise it will be removed in X days/weeks".
I'm refering to something along these lines...
I've added a link to your widget resources page in the WidgetWorld Directory as I felt that it would be of benefit to our users. If you'd like to review the description I posted you can find it at (domain here). If the editorial is inaccurate in any way, or you would prefer to have the link removed for some reason, just let me know.If you feel that WidgetsWorld would be of value to your visitors as well, a reciprocal link would be welcomed, but is not required.
I haven't personally sent out such a request, but appreciated it when I received it. (and saved it as a reference as well)
So with this clarification offered, would you still feel offended by such an email?
Personally, I feel that this type of approach is not only straight forward, but uncommonly eloquent and professional.
Its really six and half a dozen, guys!
You may email a webmaster who is busy and wants told straight; you may email a webmaster who values courtesy above all else; you may email a webmaster who will judge your site from a technical point of view; you may email a webmaster who judges the content value of your site...
....at the end of the day there are a huge variety of people out there and there is not going to be one set way of selling them all at the same time! All youre doing is playing the numbers.
You have to take each case on an individual basis and tailor your email for each webmaster. We all know what we prefer to hear, but none of us know what the other guy wants to hear! :)
JOAT
ps I was "sold" by an email that went along the lines of...."Hi, I found your site in my favourite search engine, google...blah blah professional link exchange". ;)
It didnt work the second time i recieved the exact same email from a different person in the company wanting a link to another site.... :)
I did not respond, next day the same casino guy came with this excuse:
** Our server was undergoing maintenance so you might not have been able to
see the links below in our last mail. Here is a copy of the message again.
Thanks for your understanding **
The chances of you linking to my site if I don't ask are next to nil. The chances if I ask are 50/50. I think I will keep asking and if you happen to get an e:mail from me, I won't be offended if you trash it without opening it. :)
The issue at hand is how the requests are made.
Visit Thailand feels that you should never post a link to their site first... Marcia's pointed out how manipulative approaches can backfire.
Personally, I think that in this, like most things... it's how you go about doing these things that matters.
I look forward to hearing their feedback on the approach I outlined above, and I would love to hear from other WW members as well...
How would you feel about receiving an email like the one I quoted in my last post?
Would you be receptive?
Offended?
Or, would it simply be a matter of whether the site in question was worth linking to?
I'd be very surprised if many share Visit Thailand's position of discouraging any request that includes mention of your site already being linked to... but, I've been surprised before. ;)
So weigh in on the above questions and tell us about the link requests that you have been most impressed by.
What approaches have you personally been most receptive to?
I'm sure that all members that are actively soliciting links can benefit from your experience.
I do appreciate a polite letter.
The exact phrasing of the letter or whether or not they have given me a link doesn't really matter provided the letter is polite and they make it easy for me to check their site by providing a link. Also, I want to know exactly what they want me to say. I don't want to have to do any more work than I absolutely have to.
On the other hand, when I’m taking it outside the box I spend a bunch more time with how I intend to communicate and put a plan in place. That’s when I’m looking for that extra zing out of the link.
Great posts here folks. I am really happy to see this discussion bump up again because there is good information here and so helpful.
I rarely visit the site in question but when, and if I do, even if the description etc are not accurate, I would rarely reply unless it was a very useful link to me which is rarely the case, and the chances of me linking back are extremely remote.
It is strange just yesterday someone sent me an email saying they want to link to me - is that OK. I know the person, and the site both of which are of use to me and the site. I replied politely saying they can link by doing a, b and or c, but what was going through my mind is why are these gus even asking! Perhaps a few years back it was "sort of" polite to ask, but personally I think no more.
