wwwboard and inbound links

[linkshark]

I came up with an idea a while back about using wwwboard set up on another domain to enhance my inbound links and inbound link text. Well some of the wwwboard pages are now indexed and doing quite well. It is really working well on a few of the engines. I came up with the idea when I noticed how high some pages from wwwboard rank for certain keyword and key-phrase searches. The click-thru rates are very good, as I believe people trust bulletin board posts, as long as the copy is done in a tactful manner. You can install wwwboard in any directory and change the directory name to whatever you want instead of www.mysite.com/wwwboard/. This effectively creates a load of doorway pages and inbound links with relevant link text to your site.

The way wwwboard operates is the post is repeated in the text box section of the "respond to this message" portion of the page. Effectively repeating the page text twice to those engines that can read the <form> portion of the page.

[paynt]

This is a great trick that I use with vortals. Ideally every site has it's own vortal to use for support. The vortal is used for linking, to create authority for the sites.

One of my all time favorite tricks is to create a message or bulletin board attached to each themed vortal page. I then feed entries on the board in the form of a title, description and url. These come up as link partners in link searches and in searches for keywords. Google seems to really like these. HotBot used to a few years ago.

I am not spamming unless it's my own vortal I'm spamming and that's silly. I am simply controling the use of my information and using the vortal in one of the many ways it can be used to optimize for the client.

For folks wanting to really create a foundation for their site a vortal is a very cool tool for this. The board trick is just one of many.

[linkshark]

I guess I should have said that the wwwboard "forums" are installed on "my domains" and I am NOT simply spamming other people's forums. From the first post, it is not very clear that this is what's going on.

[paynt]

I wasn't suggesting you were spamming linkshark. I'm agreeing that on your own site using a BB in this manner is a very effective tool.

I think if you have a separate vortal to use as a tool and you point your BB entry to a specific page on your site outside the vortal then it really strengthens this strategy.

The only reason I mentioned spam was in reflection to my own use of this strategy. Using my own site or vortal does not constitute spam. If I were doing this without restriction on other peoples BB it could be spam.

[linkshark]

I wasn't directing that toward you. I reread my first post and I feel I may have given the wrong impression. I totally agree with you and I think we are talking about the same thing.

[Froggyman]

Yes I too use forums to enhance search engine results while at the same time provide a valuable service to the public. To enhance those results I suggest changing the name (e.g Matt Wright's WWWBoard) to a keyword name that fits your web site content. For example, if you sell widgets rename the file and directory to "/Widgets_Board/Widget_Board.html". Also I added a variable in the Perl script to attach a very common keyword to the front of the title. I noticed a big increase in search engine traffic. It also really helps to link messages to related content elsewhere on the site.

[rayjam]

I am very interested in what you are all saying but have to admit I don't know the first thing about this method and cannot follow this thread, please can someone tell me how this works or point me in the right direction to learn

thanks

[paynt]

rayjam, I only use my own boards for this. The message boards are attached to a themed canonical on my vortal. I then feed them infomation that ranks and gets traffic for keywords. Particularly true for Google. I've seen these show up in HotBot too.

I form my entry in the style of a title, description and url. Keyword anchor text links are great. Very important to stay on topic and offer a page with content. The entry itself is what shows in results so this in essence becomes your doorway. Make it work for you.

[rayjam]

ok.. you lost me on themed canonical vortal...

[Billythekid]

> ds. Google seems to really like these. HotBot <
Google has had problems with forum/discusion group spam, (not refering to anyone here :) ) and they are working on a filter that will penalize such. Great idea but it could be poison soon

[paynt]

Is it spam to feed your own vortal. These descriptive entries are very good seed for discussion. Google would have to filter out all boards if that's the case and that's a lot of potential relevant content they would be throwing away. The same is true for guestbooks and newsgroups. I find results both in traffic and rank for these markets. I think if you work it right there's no reason this isn't effective and ethical.

I do not advocate spamming other folk’s boards. But, if you can provide relevant content pertaining to a discussion, there’s no reason to hold back. I set up the rules for my board and follow the rules of others. It’s like when I suggested getting links from university professors because of the large weight Google places on those. I did so with a full disclaimer not to spam professors. The same is true with this little tip. I think this is a good clean way to get my information out there. If I can also build community and stimulate conversation, my board is then working for my client and me.

When you consider this approach, consider it only one tip of how I work a message board on my own vortal. The vortal for me is a tool. It's an expensive investment for a client to opt for a vortal in addition to the other optimization strategy. If you’re going to have one then you better work it.

Rayjam – themed canonical vortals, now there’s my favorite tool. I see no end to the optimization potential from them. To do my very best for a client give me a great log analyzer and a themed vortal; the tools of my trade. Link checkers and Brett’s cool theme checker are the candles on my cake.

[rayjam]

I still don't know what a themed canonical vortal is...Help

[paynt]

Ok rayjam, here is the themed canonical vortal as defined by Debra.

Canonical - vanity, alias, virtual, sub-directory domains. I've heard it called so many things. A hosting company suggested canonical. I like the term. Webster defines canonical: reduced to the canonical form <a canonical matrix> canonical form: the simplest form of something

The purpose of creating a canonical would to develop a space for the simplest form of your term or theme.

A vortal is a themed portal. A themed canonical vortal then is simply a vortal set up with canonicals.

Let’s use a health vortal as an example. You could set it up in a dozen different ways. With a canonical structure it might look like:

disease.mysite.com/
disease.mysite.com/arthritis/
disease.mysite.com/cancer/
disease.mysite.com/cancer/colon/
disease.mysite.com/cancer/liver/
disease.mysite.com/diabetes/

drug.mysite.com/
or
pharma.mysite.com/
pharma.mysite.com/drug-a/
pharma.mysite.com/drug-b/

You would theme it out as far as you can go. Try to stay very specific and don’t go more that two levels deep. If I found myself at
disease.mysite.com/cancer/colon/symptoms/
disease.mysite.com/cancer/colon/treatment/

I would add a new canonical to
cancer.mysite.com/colon/ symptoms/
cancer.mysite.com/colon/treatment/

And so on. On each of these pages then I have the whole vortal thing set up with search features, links to resources (linking partners), links to alerts and articles which double as my gateways. Etc…. I found using ODP info through a POD boosts rankings and traffic and link weight right away. Don’t ask me why. I have ideas but only in theory stage. Of course you feed your message boards and sign your guestbook. Make sure then that, staying on theme, you link in the site you have created the vortal as a tool for. If the whole purpose here is to provide information about the pharma portion of this example then link in those pages appropriately for a big boost in both ranking and traffic.

Why do I use canonicals? They are so much less expensive with all the reduced hassles of separate domains. Google, Alta Vista, Fast and Inktomi all appear to acknowledge them as independent domains. Google sometimes gives me credit for
pharma.mysite.com/ and www.pharma.mysite.com/.

With a canonical I tend to stay purer with my themes and not get distracted plus it’s a whole lot easier to maintain. It probably won’t work for everyone nor should it. It does work for me. Clear? Hope this helps.

[rayjam]

Wow ! Thank you for such a detailed explanation. I will have to give this some serious thought.

Thanks again

[paynt]

You're welcome. Pass it on:)

[rayjam]

This really sounds like something I need to know about.
One of the first questions is how much does it cost to do? Where can I purchase the software to set up a vortal? Can you mention any operational site examples I might be able to visit?

thanks

[rogerd]

Rayjam, unless I am missing something, there is no cost or special software required to do this - just your time in setting up the directory structure, etc. (Some hosts may enact a one-time charge for setting up subdomains, e.g., setting up topic.domain.com for domain.com. The important thing, I'm sure, is to have a well-planned topic/keyword strategy and, of course, plenty of content to populate the various topics. This is where discussion boards come into play - in essence, your visitors are creating unique and topically relevant content for you.

[paynt]

I agree exactly with rogerd.

For the last vortal I used POD for search through [grohol.com...] I like this form for accessing the ODP info because it does not use dynamic url. This time we are trying out Anaconda but stupid me didn't check it out first and the search is dynamic. I don't know what will become of this.

For message boards there are many free scripts out there. I've tried a few. This time my client opted for ezboard. I like it so far. Haven't had a spidering yet so we'll see.

The way you set up the structure of the vortal is the key here. Remember to stay on theme. Think ahead about how you will manage the incoming and outgoing links. I use Zeus to do my initial theme link collections and then process those links from there. I'm not creating a standard Zeus directory only using Zeus as the first step in collecting the initial links for review. This saves me hours.

I'll send an email rayjam, of an address for the newest vortal I'm developing. It's still in development stage but I think you can get an idea of where it's going. <added>You'll have to write me first, I see you do not have an email address listed.</added>

[Digital Guerrilla]

ok paynt let's see if I understand...
my problem is this:
the website of the company for which I work is in English, but since it's really well made and it gaves great commerce they're thinking to translate it in many differents languages...
actually what I'm thinking is: it is better for me (I mean for the result on the SE) to make differents subdomains like...
english.websitename.com/...
german.websitename.com/...
spanish.websitename.com/...
allotherlanguages.websitename.com/...
or its better to buy differents domains for each language?
Another way I thaught was this:
buy differents domains for each language (then a .com, a .de, etc...) and submit it to the different "national SE" but from the homepage of the centralwebsite (the .com one) the links given to the different languages redirect to subdomains and not to different domains...
what do you think is better?
since the explanation you gave about canonical vortal, it is better then others solutions?
obviously they have a well-planned topic/keyword strategy and, of course, plenty of content to populate the various topics (in this case the language but the problems is posed also for specific topics...)...
so? tell me if I'ven't benn clear...
thans in advanced

[paynt]

Good questions Digital_Guerrilla, I think I would opt for separate domains for each language simply because I would need my canonicals to stay on theme. Unless the site is all about one thing that you can cover with

theme.mysite.com/sub_theme/

You see what I mean? Figure out your overall strategy for setting up the pattern you are using first. We could both be offering the same product and with this method come up with our own pattern. It has to be what works for you. I would do this first and then repeat it in the other languages. Not that I'm fluent in anything other than English, I do seem to remember that the same word once interpreted may take on another meaning so you may want to play around with that during the conversion. I love to see this when you’re done.

The big clue to this is to stay pure with your themes. Don’t throw a new concept in somewhere because you don’t have enough to develop it into a full page. Tuck it away for when you do. After the naming convention is established then you have to fulfill it with a fully developed page. For the vortal you need all the bells and whistles I mentioned previously. For a site itself that means good content, on topic meta tags (don’t tell me what the whole sites about, just what this page is about) keyword distribution using alternative keywords. How many ways can you say or ask for the product you are selling? Also you need good h2 headings, etc. Create a page that a human editor can say “this makes sense, I get it”. A well developed canonical can stand on it’s own and really opens your marketing possibilities.

Let me know how it works out.

[Digital Guerrilla]

Dear paynt
Thank you very much for your very satysfying answer, I've got it and I'm already working on it...

>Let me know how it works out.

sure I'll do but actually I still have a question. To make a better vortal I should do something like:

topic.mysite.com/apage.html

or

topic.mysite.com/topickeyword/apage.html

I mean that probably the second one could look like spam, no? Actually I prefer the first one but what do you think is better and more powerfull?
And if the topic is like a phrases is better

word1-word2-word3.mysite.com/...

or

word1_word2_word3.mysite.com/...

or

word1word2word3.mysite.com/...

Thanks again in advanced...

[paynt]

Digital_Guerrilla, what I would do is for each canonical bring it down to it's most simple terms.

theme1.mysite.com/keyword1/index.htm
theme1.mysite.com/keyword2/index.htm

theme2.mysite.com/keyword1/index.htm
theme2.mysite.com/keyword2/index.htm

I would not use more than one word term to use as your theme. Keep it very simple. About.com is a great example of how this can be done with canonicals because they use them all the time.

Of your choices then I prefer
topic.mysite.com/topickeyword/apage.html

>topic.mysite.com/topickeyword/apage.html

I mean that probably the second one could look like spam, no? >

no. I see nothing wrong with the system and is in fact what I use all the time.

[Marcia]

paynt, on these vortals, how many directories deep do you go? What is your upper end limit? I imagine this relates not only to depth of directories, but also relates to the maximum number of characters in the URLs.

Right now I am going buggy trying to figure out and set up the navigation on a particular site, so this is very timely. The internal linking system is critical, and once done it will not be good to change it.

TIA, Marcia

[paynt]

I go no more than 2 directories deep. If I have to go deeper then I create another canonical.

I feel there is a lot of power in a canonical if themed correctly so I'm better off with a new canonical than more than two layers deep with directories.

Does that answer completely, Marcia?

[Digital Guerrilla]

hi to all
and thanks for the answer...
now i'm in "confusionary" personal state since your answer paynt makes me in difficult...
you said that...

theme1.mysite.com/keyword1/index.htm
theme1.mysite.com/keyword2/index.htm
and
theme2.mysite.com/keyword1/index.htm
theme2.mysite.com/keyword2/index.htm

are better...
but actually the problem is, for example if my site is about soccer (for example www.soccer.com) how should I work:

german-leagues.soccer.com/...
or
leagues.soccer.com/german/...
or
german.soccer.com/leagues/...

I mean what should I do if the keyword and section I want to improve is german leagues and not just leagues or german? For you german-leagues is a theme? This problem put me in difficult. I hope you understand my question...
thanks again in advanced...

[Digital Guerrilla]

Hi all...
sorry if I bother you again...
but actually since I'll really would like to learn more about vortical...
and also it looks like what the company I work for need...
I'm trying to understand it best.
I've also talk about it with "friends" and "collegues" and let's see if I got it something good...
Let's make an example tha's easiest...
Let see... ok my site is www.company.de and it is...
Let see... a german language school...
(actualy is the second time I use german/germany like example, perhaps because I've been there, trying also to leran the language... but didn't got it very well...)
anyway...
www.company.de - german language school
they have many different kind a pages...
I don't know some about general information, some about generic language courses, some about specific language courses, etc...
what should I do?
let see some options?

OPTION 1

-> german-general-courses.company.de/german_general_courses.html
-> german-specific1-courses.company.de/vaiouspages.html
-> german-specific2-courses.company.de/vaiouspages.html
-> german-specific3-courses.company.de/vaiouspages.html
-> german-idontknow-whatmore.company.de/somethingelse/...

OPTION 1b

www.company.de/vaiouspages.html (for the generic info)
-> german-language-courses.company.de/german_general_courses.html
-> german-language-courses.company.de/german_specific1_courses/vaiouspages.html
-> german-language-courses.company.de/german_specific2_courses/vaiouspages.html
-> german-language-courses.company.de/german_specific3_courses/vaiouspages.html
-> german-idontknow-whatmore.company.de/somethingelse/...

OPTION 2

www.company.de/vaiouspages.html (for the generic info)
-> german-language.company.de/german-language-courses/german_general_courses.html
-> german-language.company.de/german-language-courses/german_specific1_courses/vaiouspages.html
-> german-language.company.de/german-language-courses/german_specific2_courses/vaiouspages.html
-> german-language.company.de/german-language-courses/german_specific3_courses/vaiouspages.html
-> german-idontknowwhatmore.company.de/somethingelse/...

OPTION 3

www.company.de/vaiouspages.html (for the generic info)
-> courses.company.de/german_general_courses.html
-> courses.company.de/german_specific1_courses/vaiouspages.html
-> courses.company.de/german_specific2_courses/vaiouspages.html
-> courses.company.de/german_specific3_courses/vaiouspages.html
-> idontknowwhatmore.company.de/somethingelse/...

actually what do you all think should I do if the targets are:
- good ranking with keywords like: german language courses, german specific1 courses, german specific1 courses, german specific1 courses and somethingelse...
- good topic subdivision between: german specific1 courses, german specific1 courses, german specific1 courses and somethingelse...
?

MY CONCLUSIONS
OPTION 1: I think it is the best one (or should be) for keywords/keyphrases and for subdivisions since is direct and clear...
OPTION 1b: actually there should be a very high result of "subdivision" and (I guess) a very good ranking...
OPTION 2: have no idea... I think is the worst one...
OPTION 3: lose on good ranking keywords/keyphrases but win on good subdivision...

What do you think?
Hope that you can understand the example since it has been "an hard work" to thaught it. If not just tell me, I'll try to invent another one...
thanks in advanced...
byezbyez

[paynt]

Digital_Guerrilla, I do have comments but will be gone for the day. Until later...

[Digital Guerrilla]

Hi...
just waiting...
I'll be probably be gone from now and for all the week end...
let's hope to read it before...
if not byezbyez to everybody
and good weeks-end...

[Digital Guerrilla]

oh my god...
two day are over and still no answer...
everything ok?
was my question so incredible?
just kitting...
and waiting to discover new stuff...
BYezbyEZ

[Brett_Tabke]

Real short, but you have it figured on target with Option 1. If 1 is not available, then go with Option 3. The 3rd level is best and if you don't have that, then use the directory name.

Welcome to the board DG, and people often take the weekend off and are super busy monday morning - hence the delay.