Frontpage and Frontpage Extensions

Frontpage Extensions , borders.sav, _private, _vti_bin

[Bre620]

Frontpage and Frontpage Extensions

Hello all new to the forum please bear with me....

I've been hired to rebuild a website for a small business, the only problem is that the owner insists I use frontpage. I tried for the first two days but just couldn't handle it...had to go back to hand coding and uploading via FTP. I've been doing it that way for the last two months with no ill effects..that I can see. I've been keeping his old pages updated. Now I'm ready to upload an entire new site I build with notepad.

I'd like to "clean" out the server before I do, so I know exactly where everything is and what's going go. The problem is I see all these funky directories (borders.sav, _private, _vti_bin, etc) what I have no idea what they're for, my only guess is that they are for FrontPage. Can someone please tell me what file are ok to delete and which ones need to stay...I'm new to this backend stuff. Also I've notice in some of the new directories that I've created, a new directories (_vti_cnf) is created automatically with a duplication of all the files...can some one explan to what's going on, and if there's a way I can stop it.

What is the advantage of using Frontpage?..should I be using it?

Below is the dir tree..

-rw-r--r-- 1 401.html
-rw-r--r-- 1 403.html
-rw-r--r-- 1 404.html
-rw-r--r-- 1 500.html
drwxr-xr-x 4 _borders
drwx------ 2 _private
drwxr-xr-x 4 _vti_bin
drwxr-xr-x 2 _vti_cnf
-rw-r--r-- 1 _vti_inf.html
drwxr-xr-x 2 _vti_log
drwxr-xr-x 3 _vti_pvt
drwxr-xr-x 2 _vti_txt
drwxr-xr-x 4 admin
-rw-r--r-- 1 bkg.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 blcorner.gif
drwxr-xr-x 3 borders.sav
-rw-r--r-- 1 brcorner.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 desktop.ini
drwxr-xr-x 3 errordocs
-rw-r--r-- 1 graphicalcounter.html
-rw-r--r-- 1 index.3.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 lbcorner.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 ltcorner.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 postinfo.html
-rw-r--r-- 1 rbcorner.gif
drwxr-xr-x 2 report
-rw-r--r-- 1 rtcorner.gif
drwxr-xr-x 3 style
drwxr-xr-x 3 usage

Note: I've removed all the new directories I've created. Anyway any info you can give would be appreciated.
Bre

[Robino]

What is the advantage of using Frontpage?..should I be using it?

FrontPage is the worst. I would stay away from it.

I could see using it if that's all you knew and you didn't want to learn a new program. But DW is just as easy to use and much better.

Personally, I think hand-coding is the best.

[bill]

FrontPage is the worst. I would stay away from it.

That's your opinion, but it clearly show that you have little experience with the software. FP is a tool just like DW and Notepad. You can use this tool properly and make perfectly validating HTML in a short amount of time. It still amazes me that the mere mention of FP seems to bring these types of comments out of the woodwork. You can make equally poor sites with DW or Notepad. The choice of the tool you work with has little impact on the final result if you know how to use the tool.

The question here was about FP generated files and folders. The general rule is that you can safely delete any of the folders beginning with an underscore as long as the site is not using elements which require the server extensions. If you've been maintaining the site with FTP uploads for a while then those folders most likely aren't required.

What is the advantage of using Frontpage?..should I be using it?

FP can make site maintenance tasks quite simple. It does a lot of things automatically with an entire site that would require a lot of tedious cutting, copying, and pasting with Notepad. For some its main benefit is the WYSIWYG interface. Users who are comfortable with a word processor (like Word) can simply and easily make a webbpage or maintain a site. They don't have to learn HTML with FP, but it certainly has a capable HTML editor if you want to use it. Your client probably finds the usability of the product appealing.

Many experienced developers find that FP is a powerful site building and maintenance tool. There are plenty of pros here that use it. Unless the site is using database or other FP specific components then you can use the tool of your choosing to maintain the site.

[Robino]

Well Bill, actually I used front page from '97 - '00. So my opinion is not as off-the-wall as you think.

I've had too many problems using it. If I made a pros v. cons list, the cons would out number the pros 10:1. MAYBE 20:1!

My advice is to pass on FP if you can.

[bill]

OK, then I stand corrected on your FP experience. I guess I've seen just a too few many unsubstantiated FP bashing threads of late. Nothing personal. I just see the topic of this thread as a question about how to work with an existing FP site. It's not a terribly difficult question to answer if you've had some experience working with FP.

I find very little value in the "What's the best WYSIWYG" threads as they generally degrade quite quickly. A lot of the claims made about FP simply aren't true and they usually come from people who don't have any experience or expertise with the software. Let's not have this thread turn into one of those.

[Robino]

I agree.

I was responding to this:

What is the advantage of using Frontpage?..should I be using it?

[Marshall]

There's an old saying "it's a poor musician that blames his instrument." As noted, FrontPage is a tool, noting more. How you use it or don't is up to you. Like any program, it has pros and cons. I find that a lot of people, whether it's FrontPage or something else, simple do not take the time to study it.

That said, FrontPage generates numerous files. If you did not use any of the FrontPage features to generate you pages such as shared borders or navigation, you can delete all files starting with an underscore (except _private) without a problem.

One advantage to FrontPage is checking links. But as noted in FrontPAge Help, FrontPage will not recognize any files loaded via FTP.

[beck]

I use work in DW but FP comes in handy to teach clients to edit their own pages. We all know that changing text is good for search results but as I was reading I was thinking that FP may add too much code to the pages as they edit making the frequent updates worthless or even harmful to the sites rankings. Has anyone use the text cleaning features on the 2003 version of FrontPage? Are they safe enough?

[Bre620]

thanks for repling to this thread,

Ok so I can delete the following files with exeption of the _private?:

drwxr-xr-x 4 _borders
drwx------ 2 _private
drwxr-xr-x 4 _vti_bin
drwxr-xr-x 2 _vti_cnf
-rw-r--r-- 1 _vti_inf.html
drwxr-xr-x 2 _vti_log
drwxr-xr-x 3 _vti_pvt
drwxr-xr-x 2 _vti_txt

-rw-r--r-- 1 postinfo.html

However I would like to make the front page extensions available to the next person that maintains the site if for any reason I move on. I don't want to render the Frontpage extensions totally useless forever. I suppose I could just publish the new handcoded website with frontpage right, and that would over write the existing structure to match the one on my local drive...right? there after just use FPT. I just don't want to screw anything up for the next guy, or for myself if I, for some reason decided to use Frontpage.

Would changing the password in frontpage stop the files from reproducing (_vti_cnf) once I create a file structure? Even the ones I upload via FTP are duplicating....I suppose no big deal but I like everything neat...

Thanks for your help,
Bre

[Marshall]

Your best bet is wipe the server (delete the web) then publish using FrontPage. You could just publish using FP, but it will keep asking you "file so-and-so exists on the server but not on the local web - do you want FrontPage to delete it?" That tends to get annoying. Just remember, FP doesn't know when changes are made using FTP. That's the only reason I suggest you continue to use FP if you want to maintain continuity.

[RonnieG]

Let's go back to a key element of the initial post:
"... The owner insists that I use FP..."

If this is so, then why would you not follow his directions? If I were your client, and was delivered a non-FP site when I insisted on FP, you would not be paid!

The owner's insistance on FP is likely based on pre-determination that the site, once build, would be maintained in-house, and they already have FP, or a FP contractor lined up to maintain it!

My suggestion: Forget what is easy for you, and deliver what was specified by the client. You can import what you have done so far into FP, make any final adjustments, and use FP to upload to the site to the current location.