Alternative to Dreamweaver?

[watermac77]

I am fed up with Dreamweaver! It is full of bugs and just doesn't work like it should. Anyone use Dreamweaver (extensively) that has converted to another WYSIW@#% editor? Thanks.

[lavazza]

It is full of bugs and just doesn't work like it should

I take it that you know how 'it should work'

If so, maybe you would benefit from hand-coding, in a text editor

e.g. scite : [scintilla.sourceforge.net...]

[watermac77]

Hand coding is not my bag. I am a visual guy so I am looking for a WYSIWYG editor as my post indicated. I would appreciate some helpful information instead... this is the WYSIWYG forum is it not?

Dreamweaver has a lot of bugs and is just really slow (granted I use file caching) so just interested in another alternative.

[skipfactor]

What version of DW do you use? Unfortunately, I've yet to find another WYSIWYG editor that works better for me. However, I use the old DW MX and have despised any of the newer, bloated versions I've demoed.

It's fast(I use FileZilla, hate DW FTP), stable, does php, & works with any of the latest extensions I've tried. I spend more time in Notepad these days but it's still my most prized 'legacy' CD, though you can pick it up on ebay for less than $50.

[Marcia]

Dreamweaver puts out clean code even going back to DW2 (which I never upgraded from because I don't even use all the features with that). I make minor HTML alterations by hand right in the program, and use that page as the model for other pages on the site. I use CuteFTP (always have), and choose to do all CSS and PHP includes by hand in a text editor.

Occasionally I'll use some utility to "tidy up" and remove some white space, but the code put out is just fine.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

I agree with Marcia. In my own experience most problems with DW are user related. Incidentally I am on DW8 and I have very few problems withe the built in FTP.

[Marcia]

Of course I'm still using DW2 (and will continue to, since it works for me), but I do have to admit that the CSS it inserts is a mess from my viewpoint. I'd rather have intuitive naming and a certain order, so I code the CSS by hand, use it imbedded during construction, and when it works like I want, put it in an external file for use on other pages.

I'm re-doing several old sites (that are in a bit of a mess) so it's a lot of hand coding for styles, but once that's done it's clear sailing.

[ytswy]

>In my own experience most problems with DW are user related.

I've certainly run into real bugs in Mac versions of Dreamweaver. I think my "favourite" is trying to save and getting a message saying I've made a change to a non-editable region (which I haven't but never mind), and would I like to revert back to my last save or continue?

Both buttons revert back to last save...

But if you copy the whole page before it reverts, and once it does select all and paste it over the top, Dreamweaver shuts up and lets you save.

[watermac77]

I do agree that DW outputs clean code if your preferences are set right (which is a must). But my main problem is using templates and library items. Sometimes DW just doesn't respond when using these... for example, if a change is made to a library item, I have learned I need to sit and wait after saving so that DW can "catch up" - then I get the "update" dialog box. This wait can be as long as 5 minutes so it is quite frustrating and time consuming. And if I move ahead and attempt to do other commands DW freezes. But on a site that is hundreds of pages, templates and library items are a must.

And another headache is that when a style is altered DW automatically inserts CSS into the code. This can get messy over time if more than one designer is working on it.

I am currently using DW8 on a PC. I use MX2004 at home on my Mac and it works better. I like to tweak the code by hand and also use DWs CSS feature, but almost always create the CSS in Notepad and then just make minor edits in DW. It handless CSS well with exception to adding the random styles. Does anyone use CS3? Any improvements?

[yumigator]

I use CS3 and don't really like it. It's very slow (this is on a Pentium M 2.0GHz with 1GB RAM, not too bad a system). I don't use the features you're talking about, but I can't imagine the process going any faster on this new version.

I don't even touch the WYSIWYG part; I always write my own code, so I think I would actually be better off with a text editor with syntax highlighting.

[Marcia]

I might use Library items for a few pages while constructing or while still unsure, but once it's all good to go, it all goes into PHP includes for anything that repeats a lot (like navigation or headers and footers). There's nothing like updating one single .php text file to do a modification, and uploading that one page updates all the HTML pages it's on.

[Mr Bo Jangles]

I agree with Miss Marcia et al.
Get an older version of DW for a few bucks.

(and looking at the code it puts out really helps you learn HTML and make a few tweaks when you want to)

[Marcia]

I don't use Libraries or DW Templates because I don't want the code bloat and I don't want it identifiable in the source code.

Even with DW2 (which didn't support PHP or include Doctypes) you can add functionality (create an Object) to use a variety of PHP includes rather than SSI, can add an Object to include a doctype, and you can make your own basic site template for individual sites that includes all common elements to use instead of the default that opens when you start a "new" document - and it's customized however you want it.

Lean, mean, lightweight code, exactly as you like it, with the old DW2 even.

[vincevincevince]

Dreameweaver does produce clean code, but it is far from optimium code. That is to say, if you drive it from a visual standpoint, you will get semantically passable code, but it won't create intelligent code.

As an example, you can find all the Header 2 lines, and add an underline to them. Dreamweaver won't strip those underlines from the HTML and use CSS to apply it to Header 2.

Likewise, you could frequently use blocks of small dark red text on a cream background. Intelligent code would mean writing those as DIV element and creating a class to define those styles.

I am a visual guy so I am looking for a WYSIWYG editor as my post indicated.

The reason I bring these up is that you are a visual guy who apparently does know how to write HTML and CSS. My strong suggestion is that you do your visual design as a pure design exercise. You can use any application you want, even a drafting board, and end up with a graphical/visual design. Then, do your hand coding to implement that visual design in an intelligent way.