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eot files revisited

embedded fonts - yes or no?

         

Noisehag

7:14 pm on May 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi everyone. Was curious if the use of eot files to display fonts on a page is good or bad. I can see that if used sparingly, it should be fine.

Using WEFT the other day, I created a sample that appears to work just fine in IE6 and NN7 with the following code.

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Test Page</TITLE>
<STYLE TYPE="text/css">
@font-face {
font-family: creepy;
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;
src: url(CREEPY0.eot); }
-->
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<span style="font-family:creepy;font-size:72pt;color:Maroon;">a b c d e f g</span>
</BODY>
</HTML>

I guess I'm just looking for opinions on using this method at all and how compatible it is beyond IE and NN.

Thanks

vkaryl

12:00 am on May 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Well, I like the IDEA of embeddable fonts, but I don't use WEFT any more. I still have three sites using .eot files in titles and headers (one with Umber SSK, one with Black Chancery, and the third with Amazone BT) but I'm looking at redoing them shortly simply because I'm concerned about the copyright issues. (Those fonts came with one or the other version of Windows, probably 98SE, not sure now; Amazone is copyright Bitstream, and though I contacted them about the use, I never heard back from them. There seems to be no copyright info at all in Black Chancery, only a "converted by AllType" note. Umber is copyright AltSys Metamorphosis, and I think I wasn't able to find contact info for them in 2000 or so when I created the .eot files.)

I have a vague thought that honestly there shouldn't BE any copyright restrictions - f'rinstance, if you produce a company brochure with the fonts living on your machine, some of those fonts may be copyrighted, but I don't know that Nevada Power (as an example, and because I have their stockholders' annual meeting agenda handy) has a whole file folder of permissions from Bitstream et al for the use of their fonts in print media....

Anyway, that's my WAY more than 2 cents worth....

Edit: and I COULD have addressed the original question *sigh*....

My sites with embedded fonts display those fonts quite nicely in all browsers I have available (nothing for mac or linux, sorry). And this is NOT because they are "living on my machine" - I routinely test by uninstalling the relevant fonts. I've placed the eot info in my css stylesheets....

choster

1:48 am on May 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I am looking much closer at IFR [shauninman.com...]

vkaryl

1:58 am on May 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Ah. But that's a flash technology, right?

Noisehag

6:11 pm on May 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



So it sounds like the copyright issues are the biggest drawback to using this method. I'm wondering how likely it would actually be that someone would stumble upon a site that has one of their company's fonts (not to say that I wouldn't make an extended effort to contact them in advance mind you). My plan was to use fonts that are close to system fonts, but different enough to give the site a fresh look relative to the last......nothing extreme. But if the legality of it poses too large a risk, then I would most certainly abandon the idea.

Wouldn't the use of IFR hold the same sort of copyright risk as eot regardless of format? Or is it the fact that the font information is not directly visible in the source of the page that makes it a better solution?

R1chard

10:47 am on May 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



It would appear Bitstream's excellent Truedoc embedable font technology was left by the wayside. It worked well in Netscape 4 (all platforms) and IE4/5 (Mac/Win), but they have no plans to allow other browsers to use it, and have discontinued their TTF->PFR conversion software... Even though they don't want to use it any more, they won't even publish the source code. Opera don't seem to want to put in the effort either, and the response I got from Amaya was "That would be fine. You wanna volunteer to put it in?"

As for Weft (or any font embedding scheme), I was led to believe that copyright is NOT an issue at all with these technologies. That's the whole point: fonts are not installed on the remots system (at least, not working ones). You're not really distributing anything, and providing they are unhackable (7 years and counting!), nobody will be able to steal anything.

Bearing in mind the absolutely huge advantages to using text+fonts instead of graphics (both for the webmaster, for the server and also for the end reader), then yeah, they are well worth using.

vkaryl

12:28 am on May 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



As for Weft (or any font embedding scheme), I was led to believe that copyright is NOT an issue at all with these technologies. That's the whole point: fonts are not installed on the remots system (at least, not working ones). You're not really distributing anything, and providing they are unhackable (7 years and counting!), nobody will be able to steal anything.

Hmmm. That's a very interesting statement. I had contacted various font authors/hinters as listed in certain fonts I wanted to embed. The reason for contact was the "unembeddable" nature of those fonts. In EVERY CASE (I think probably 10-12 UNIQUE copyright-holders), I was told they had made the fonts "unusable" in WEFT simply due to copyright considerations - and several were so blunt as to say in effect that since they could not recoup any of their investment through "royalties" (even though I had paid for those fonts) they would forever refuse to allow their fonts to be embedded through ANY technology, not just WEFT.

Admittedly, this was all several years in the past. Perhaps I should revisit this whole thing.

R1chard

11:14 am on May 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



^ well in that case, there's the answer. If the foundry disallows embedding, then you don't have permission. But if they chose to allow embedding, then they have granted permission.

And can you imagine somebody who makes a well-known font recieving 10,000 emails a day requesting permission? It can't work.

Besides, look at it this way: some readers might like the font so much they go out and buy it (so they can use it themselves). So perhaps the webmaster should charge the foundry so that they don't get a free advert?!