Netscape 7 and still problems with iframes

Will Netscrap ever get it right?

[ZippyP]

Hello
I'm having a problem as most usually do with Netscrap 7 and below. I'm trying to load a playlist into my site from a remote URL. This playlist does an auto update. In IE it works great, Netscrap does not seem to load the information into the iframe properly and it just keeps recycling. Is it possible to load the same information into a table if the ifames do not work under Netscrap, my experience is no, but someone may have a table trick up their sleeve.
I have been trying to design my sites without frames since it seems the way most are going.
The code is the standard iframe code with an absolute position to center it. I guess you would have to see for yourself what it is doing. I placed the code with the URL removed. I'll email the code and URL to anyone that can help. What is Netscrap's problem with the W3? Even CSS is a trick to get working in that browser. Gee let’s make it pretty and the heck with conformance with other browsers.
OK. I'm done, just stepped down from the soapbox.
Can anyone here help?
Any help would be appreciated....
Thanks
ZippyP

<!----Now Playing Start---->
<div>
<iframe src="http://www.example.com/pls/front?handler=playlist&cmd=view&handle=smoothzippy&site=..#bottom" FRAMEBORDER="0" name="music_Live"
style="position:absolute; left:170;top:146;width:450px; height:125px; z-index:8; visibility:visible" allowtransparency="true" id="Playlist"></iframe>
</div>
<!-----Now Playing End----->

[isitreal]

What is doing the autoupdate, Javascript?

[hartlandcat]

I'm having a problem as most usually do with Netscrap 7 and below.

Although many people have problems with Netscape 4, Netscape 7 doesn't have any major problems with anything. I use (and love) Netscape 7.1 all the time, as do many members of this forum (or they use a similar browser that uses the same rendering engine as Netscape 7, such as Mozilla).

What is Netscrap's problem with the W3?

It doesn't have one. It's IE that gets many the W3C standards wrong, not Netscape 7.

Even CSS is a trick to get working in that browser.

Really? I've never experienced such a problem. Actually, Netscape 7's CSS support is considerably more advanced than IE 6's.

Anyway... Welcome to WebmasterWorld! Please don't take offence to my rather corrective message, I'm just filling you in with the correct information regarding the myths about the Netscape browser. What you have to realise is that IE is extremely forgiving of errors. Maybe you've made an error in your HTML or CSS that IE is letting through, but Netscape isn't. I suggest you run it through the W3C validator.

[grahamstewart]

Have you tried your site in any browser other than Netscape and IE?
I bet you hit problems in Opera and Firebird as well.

As hartlandcat says Netscape 7 is considerably more W3 compliant than IE. Chances are the problem is in your code (sorry).

The W3C CSS Validator [jigsaw.w3.org] and the W3C HTML Validator [validator.w3.org] are invaluable tools for making your code W3c compliant and hence cross-browser.

[ZippyP]

Thanks for the responce

Isitreal
It does the autoupdate at the site with the playlist and it is done in Java at the other site.
Each time a new song starts to play it updates the list. This iframe works fine in IE without any glitches, Netscrap on the other hand does not stop trying to get the information from the site. The playlist is on sort of a timer at the other site, figure about 3-4 mins about the length of a song.

Grahamstewart
I'm only concerned with IE and Netscrap. Actually I'm done with designing two pages, fixes or tricks for netscrap. Stick a fork in it, I'm pretty much over that browser. I just want to get this project done and after that I could care less if I ever get anything working in Netscrap. I have not tried the iframe in the two other mentioned browsers. Thanks for the suggestion on the other two browsers. I'll take a shot at them.

Hartlandcat
I'm glad that you don't have problems Netscrap. I don't have any problems with IE. Not one site that I have designed failed under it. I have been to quite a few forums and have seen numerous complaints about Netscrap. I see numerous fixes for Netscrap 4x and up and very little for IE. You may be right I could be coding my site poorly and IE is passing the errors. Thats why I'm here.

I did run my URL through the W3 and all I received back is that I did not have a Doctype Declaration in the page.
If you want I can send you the full URL in the iframe. It is probably user error here. However it works fine in IE. I would like to get just this project working in Netscrap. By the way, the site is an Internet Jazz station I am running the list for.
Thanks again all for the quick replies.
ZippyP

[hartlandcat]

You are not going to achieve anything by constantly calling Netscape "Netscrap". Aside from causing anoyance to a number of people here (making them less likely to want to help you), it will re-inforce your current opinions about Netscape and will mean that you are even less likely to suceed with it. What you have to realise is that the reason why your site is having problems displaying properly in Netscape is because IE is forgiving of errors in HTML and CSS. Because you see that IE appears to be getting it right, you believe Netscape is getting it wrong. Actually, it's completely the other way round.

You need to put this at the very top of your HTML page:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD//HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

Then you will get it through the validator.

Also, are you aware that Netscape 4.8 and below, and Netscape 6.0 and higher are completely different browsers, based on entirely different rendering engines?

[PCInk]

> What you have to realise is that the reason why your site is having problems displaying properly in Netscape is because IE is forgiving of errors in HTML and CSS.

IE is far TOO forgiving, making it look like other browsers that have the problem, when often it is IE correcting your mistakes (yes, that's the two words: your mistakes) without you realising. When you put mistakes into other browsers, the action is undefined. That follows the W3C to the letter - it's standard does not compensate for mistakes and errors. And on CSS, when will IE implement min-width and max-width? I have found NS7 to have MUCH better CSS support than IE, Opera is also better, leaving IE far behind in the CSS field.

In terms of problems, every browser has it's problems and iframes and NS7 do have their problems. But as stated earlier, if you want help from people like me who use NS7 every day, you should stop calling it NetScrap or we may call you IE users 'assimilated'...

[hartlandcat]

I have been to quite a few forums and have seen numerous complaints about Netscrap.

I had intended to comment about this statement before. In this section of WebmasterWorld, there have been many topics posted a long the lines of "Why doesn't [insert feature here] work in [insert name of browser here]?" The majority of the time, that browser in question is Netscape/Opera/Mozilla/Safari/something that isn't IE. Whilst no browsers are bug-free, 98% of the time, the reason as to why the feature "doesn't work" in the non-IE browser was found to be because of a bug in IE, rather than a bug/problem with the non-IE browser.

In other words, Netscape is not as hated by the web developer community as you seem to believe. Actually, a significant proportion of us hate IE.

[ZippyP]

Sorry Netscape people...
I didn't think I would offend someone with somthing as trivial as poking fun at a browser.

I have been using the W3 to validate my sites for quite some time now. So far I have been following the proper design format. I did insert the <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD//HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> in the page and it still did not work in Netscape. I rechecked the page with the w3 an it was fine. Well so far I have only found out the difference between browsers and that was probably due to me poking fun at Netscape. The problem still exists. The code is a simple iframe. So i guess the iframe code.
Thanks again for the replies.
ZippyP

[hartlandcat]

I didn't think I would offend someone with somthing as trivial as poking fun at a browser.

Users of IE generally view browsers as a trivial subject, but users of most other browsers (especially Netscape, due to historical reasons) take browsers much more seriously. Mac users (like myself) are the same when it comes to their computers.

I did insert the <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD//HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> in the page and it still did not work in Netscape.

That was only needed to make it possible for the W3C validator to validate your site. It's existance would not suddenly "make your site work" in Netscape.

What does Opera do when it comes to rendering your site?

[scottmack]

>>>>>>> style="position:absolute; left:170;top:146;

TOP and Left are missing px units.

[DrDoc]

I rechecked the page with the w3 an it was fine.

Right! ;)

You need both a valid doctype and a defined charset for the validator to even attempt a check.

[ZippyP]

Well so far no go.
All I can say is that this is probably something very simple that is being missed and so far, I have been going in circles with this project.

Very simple code or is it?

<IFRAME src="http://www.example.com/cgi-in/YADA.cgi?name=YADAYADA&amp;
site=PLR-YADA&amp;
url=http://www.example.com/cgi-bin/YADA.cgi?membername=YADAYADA&amp;
site=PLR-YADAYADA” width="768" height="368">
</IFRAME>

This code works in IE, it does not work in Netscape though it will work outside the iframe if just placed as a hypertext link on the page. As for Opera, it is the same thing as Netscape. Opera is the furthest thing from my mind right now.
All the other tags, meta, doctype, etc, etc. does effect this code. I checked it with and with out the proper tags at the W3. Of course, without the above tags it would not validate. Whether or not IE is forgiving of bugs and Netscape is the best browser that has been developed to follow all the proper standards of the W3 is not really the issue here, and because I poked fun at Netscape, it became an issue. I am not going to apologize again for this since this should be a mute issue.
This code does work in IE, so if the average user of the Intranet/Internet visits the page and it works for them they do not know that IE or Netscape is buggy or not.
Again, this code is being called from a remote site. It is calling some CGI scripts and Java scripts. What my employees and I are seeing here is that we are going around the problem and not focusing on the iframe itself. We just finished 42 Intranet sites in the past two months, we are slightly worn out and we started working on this as a side project just for an add on to our Intranet and one of my sites. This is not a major deal here. One of my employees told me that this would be a good forum to check out. What I gather is this type of situation would need as they call it, a page hack, or trick to fake Netscape to pass the information. As you must know, this had to be done with the 4x versions of Netscape for passing CSS.

Here are the questions I gave one of my employees to ponder.
1. Why is IE passing the information properly to the iframe and Netscape is not?
1a. What variables are being passed over by IE as an error or not being passed over as an error?
2. Why does Netscape keep calling the file and not passing the information to the iframe?
2a. What variables are causing Netscape to keep recycling the URL call?
3. Can the information be passed into a table instead of the iframe?

I am a Broadcast Engineer by trade. This is why I have employees doing this type of work. I can handle most HTML markup. Being from the old school and not completely up to date with all the new CSS and PHP page design, I am learning. This old dog has to learn the new tricks.
Thanks again for trying,
ZippyP

[tedster]

If that is one long URL for the src attribute (I assume it is) then you have spaces and line breaks within it where I placed the *s below, and you are closing the src attribute with a smart quote ”, instead of a regular quote ". Someone is using a full-blown word processor to write or copy/paste HTML --- not a good idea!

<IFRAME src="http://www.example.com/cgi-in/YADA.cgi?name=YADAYADA&amp;*
site=PLR-YADA&amp;*
url=http://www.example.com/cgi-bin/YADA.cgi?membername=YADAYADA&amp;site=PLR-YADAYADA” width="768" height="368">
</IFRAME>

[ZippyP]

Hello Tedster

Its not like that in the html markup. It is all in one string in Frontpage.

<iframe src="http://www.example.com/pls/front?handler=playlist&cmd=view&handle=YADAYADA&site=YADAYADA" FRAMEBORDER="0" name="WCJZ_Live"
style="position:absolute; left:170px;top:146px;width:450px; height:125px; z-index:8; visibility:visible" allowtransparency="true" id="Playlist"></iframe>

I posted the wrong code this morning. Have to stop doing this stuff at 3am in the morning. The other code that I posted can be called with a hypertext link. The above calls part of the playlist display without the play, stop and pause buttons and some of the other frills.
Thanks again Tedster
ZippyP

[DrDoc]

does not seem to load the information into the iframe properly and it just keeps recycling

Are you sure there's nothing wrong with the page you're trying to open in the iframe?

[SuzyUK]

ZippyP some questions....

1. can you recreate this error using a test page (static HTML?)

2. is there any (CSS) positioning involved with your iframe or its parent <div>?

3. I see a bookmark in your first set of code.. I believe that could be a problem in some browsers (getting an iframe to refresh to a bookmark can be tricky and outwith my knowledge if it's even possible)

... never mind the refreshes for now.. can you create an iframe with a static HTML page as the src that has a bookmark too..

if you can then you can say it's something to do with the scripts involved if not then post the code and we can try to help.. otherwise one of the script boards may help....

Suzy

[ZippyP]

Hello Again All

Well...... I give up with the iframes and Netscape. The only way for someone to see what I am talking about is for me to post the URL. Well, you know what happens if you do. I have been to at least a dozen or more sites that are trying the same thing, they all have the same problem with Netscape pulling the information into iframe. IE works fine. I put a script on the page to check for all Netscape browsers and directed them to a new page. On the new page I have the same code being pulled up in a popup and it works fine. I also added a click on link for the popup just in case it does not popup automatically. That all seems to work fine.
I hate having to write seperate pages to work with a browser that seems not to work properly and again I'm not the only one that can't get the iframe working in Netscape. However, thanks to all that have tried to help me here. I'll keep hacking at it when I have time. I shouldn't have to waste time on something like Netscape until it will play well with others. The stats on my sites tell me that about 80 percent use IE. Thats a shame for Netscape.

Thanks Again
Zippy