Web TV?

[SeaveeB]

Does anyone know anything about web TV Compatibility? Im being told some of my images overlap text where they shouldnt for web TV users but I dont have a clue what to do about it.

[DrDoc]

Fortunately, the number of Web TV users is shrinking. In general I don't worry about WebTV compatibility, since it is close to impossible to build a nice looking page then. WebTV is pretty much IE3 compatible...

[tedster]

The main restriction on the MSN TV browser (formerly WebTV) is the screen width which is limited to 550 pixels. Their browser uses an algorithm that squeezes everything down to that width, no matter how you code your HTML. Best guess -- you're probably catching some fallout from that algo.

Another big technical difference between a TV picture and a monitor is that a TV is interlaced -- only half the lines of a screen are displayed on each pass, and they alternate.

Here's 3 basic rules I follow when MSNTV/WebTV matters to a client.

1. Small fonts are not going to work. The browser will automatically fatten up your <font> tags, but beware of any text in graphics. Make all the letter forms substantial or they won't be legible on a TV screen.

2. Avoid all-white backgrounds -- they make a lot of TVs freak out. You'll notice that the WebTV website has sort of a light tan background.

3. Avoid intense colors like bright red -- looks like chocolate pudding, at best.

Before they bewcame MSNTV, they had some pretty extensive developer materials online. The new website doens't seem to have anything parallel.

[msr986]

Try the following link for developer info:

[developer.msntv.com...]

There is significant information, including a viewer that you can use on your PC. The viewer is not perfect, but it will show you approximately how your site looks on MSNTV.

[SeaveeB]

AHHHHHHHHH! Its aweful! I like the first post, Ill never be able to make a web TV compatible site that is attractive! You cant even read my site on webTV and it only has 2 images, but it moves them so they are in the way and makes everything overlap and it doesnt show the correct colors.

[pendanticist]

Not only did I build & maintain my domain (holds a steady PR6 :) ) with a WebTV Internet Terminal (Classic version. circa 1995/6), but it was also my first Internet appliance of any kind.

Let's not forget that several major electronics manufacturers produced those (and similar) units. As I recall, Sony had their unit incorporated right into the TV/Stand at one time. They were not all stand-alone unites, or LBB (Little Black Box) as we used to affectionately call them.

There are currently two versions in use. The Classic mentioned above and what was/is called The Plus.

Plus:

Mozilla/4.0 WebTV/2.6 (compatible; MSIE 4.0)

Classic:

Mozilla/3.0 WebTV/1.2 (compatible; MSIE 2.0)

NOTE: The above strings are based on those units having the most current upgrade. They can refuse them if they wish.

It is physically impossible to get a virus using a WebTV Internet Terminal.

Most all their newsgroups are firewalled waaaay back up in the server somewheres, although they, just like the real Internet have Kiddies, Hackers, Crackers and even <Gasp!> UCE/SPAMers.

I'll bet there are more than just a few prior WNI subscribers in here too. In fact, I know there are. :)

As I recall, didn't AOL have a similar contraption? Over the years there have been other lessthan IBM/PC/Mac appliances sold and for the life of me, they slip my mind.

Understand, I have a NON-retail, NON-grafically intense Academic site - so certain issues don't apply as heavily to me as they might you, or visa, versa.

Communicate with that user you mentioned and get the specifics, if you've not done so. They love to assist webmasters.

Don't worry about how your site looks to you when using Developer. Believe me, WebTV'ers are quite used to experiencing what could be called 'messy' sites and they (just like us), don't tolerate those who don't render well.

Consider it a blessing that someone is asking and try to forget how many may have been less communicative than your current WebTV viewer/potential customer. ;)

If you at least make an effort to bring your site into alignment they will spend money. While there is no demographic data available that I know of to support/decry what I'm about to say......

There is no known association between the type of Internet appliance one wishes to use and their ability to dispense disposable income across a wide array of mediums.

<'Tis the season to be jolly, right?>

If you find any of these thoughts unattainable, try providing a 'text-only' link if your site can function that way.

Pendanticist.
a.k.a.
PennStateProud*at*WebTVdotnet - when I was still a subscriber.

P.S. WebTV'ers are more than pleased to post how such-and-such (Hypothetical Link Goes Here) website's webmaster made some changes to increase viewability and how they should go check it out.....

[hartlandcat]

I can't say I've ever really understood why anyone would want to use WebTV, because you have to pay about $15 amonth to be able to use it for just 5 hours plus all the local (and in some cases national) phone charges as well. It works out as a very expensive option. Of course what I'm refering to is the MSN-TV service, which most people mean when they talk about a television-based internet service.

However, MSN-TV is not the only televion-based internet service. Actually, MSN-TV is only availible in the US, so if you're running say a UK-based mail order website, you don't really have to worry about the rather cr@ppy MSN-TV browser. There are many other TV internet services -- I know someone in England (where I live) who uses one -- I don't know which TV browser she uses (obviously the one that the service she subscribed to uses), but it certainly isn't the MSN-TV browser.

Other TV browsers are Liberate TV Navigator, OpenTV, NetBox and the iPanel MicroBrowser. I believe that most non-MSN TV internet users use Liberate, but that's only an educated guess.

As for supporting them... well, because they're used on televisions, they're never going to render your pages exactly as you intended, but thankfully many of them are based on other rendering engines. Liberate TV Navigator is based on Gecko (the rendering engine used in Netscape & Mozilla), and some of the others are likely to be based on Presto (the rendering engine used in Opera), but I don't know which. MSN-TV is vaguely based on IE 4.0 for Windows.

[pendanticist]

I can't say I've ever really understood why anyone would want to use WebTV, because you have to pay about $15 amonth to be able to use it for just 5 hours plus all the local (and in some cases national) phone charges as well. It works out as a very expensive option. Of course what I'm refering to is the MSN-TV service, which most people mean when they talk about a television-based internet service.

Even though we seem to be straying from the jist of the poster's request, I gotta clarify some things.

$15.00/mo for the Plus and about $10.00/mo for the Classic when using a 'regular' ISP (i.e., a local or national ISP, instead of MSN/WebTV) to access the internet.

MSN/WebTV 'discounts' their service if/when 'you use another company for internet access'.

Using only MSN/WebTV as the ISP the fee is $24.95/$21.95, respectively.

The only time that an MSN/WebTV user encounters any extra phone charges is if MSN/WebTV does not have a local access number for that user's area, thus requiring the user to dial long distance...just like any other ISP. Let's face it, when you're in the woods, you are in the woods.

Whether you're using MSN/WebTV or another ISP, if there's no local access numbers, then you either choose to or have to (as outlined above) dial long distance. In either case, you go in with your eyes open.

The monthly MSN/WebTV fees are for unlimited access. There are no time/hourly restrictions what-so-ever (unless the user's non-MSN/WebTV ISP imposes them.)

However, MSN-TV is not the only televion-based internet service. Actually, MSN-TV is only availible in the US,

While there are other 'televion-based internet services' (i.e., Set Top Boxes, Little Black Boxes or similar readonly browsers) out there, just to clarify MSN/WebTV is not only available in the US. MSN/WebTV is also in Canada (through Rogers Interactive?) and has been in Japan since "Microsoft kicked off their WebTV Networks KK, a subsidiary of US-based WebTV Networks Inc., in Japan in 1997".

Source: http://www.japaninc.net/computingjapan/magazine/issues/1999/august99/webtv.html

MSN-TV is vaguely based on IE 4.0 for Windows.

Actually, when Webtv first came out, the browser was based on the Mozilla. I think it still is, in some form, though it has been upgraded/tweaked to be MSIE 4.0 compatible.

Related (albiet dated) thread by tedster: WebTV Browser -- and WebTV Business? [webmasterworld.com]

Other TV browsers are Liberate TV Navigator, OpenTV, NetBox and the iPanel MicroBrowser

Thanks. Hadn't heard of most of those. Oh, think Dishplayer too. :)

Pendanticist. w/lotsa help from Widgitoo :)

[SeaveeB]

I made a text only version of my site and linked it to the main page. This wasnt too much trouble given that the site is mostly controlled by style sheets. Its ugly but it works and I only use the site for recreation with 1 or 2 web TV users. So it works. I cant imagine actually making the site compatible and attractive.

[choster]

Most WebTV users I've encountered are senior citizens who don't own and don't want to own a PC. After all, if someone's never used a computer in her life before, why make her purchase a newfangled device (full of games she'll never play and office apps she'll never use) when a cheap rentable box is available to hook into her television? And if he doesn't like the Internet, he can easily cancel the WebTV and send the box back, which won't be the case with the computer.

Of course if your audience is dominated by this demographic, you should be using very simple layouts (we've seen complaints that BBC News and My Yahoo are too "busy") and large text anyway.

[hartlandcat]

I can understand people like that... although I know some websites which are owned by WebTV users.

Actually, I know a website that says "This site is best viewed at 560x420. Best if viewed on WebTV."
...like I'm really going to switch to WebTV just to view someone's personal Tripod website about cats.