Catering for different versions of MSIE

Webstats suggest I should

[Hester]

I've been looking through my webstats at work and noticed we're getting hits from the following browsers. (Hits shown were from July 2003.)

MSIE 6.0 - 25376
MSIE 5.5 - 3816
MSIE 5.01 - 2971
MSIE 5.0 - 660

Plus in the stats for 1st to 8th August I see this:

MSIE 4.01 - 84
MSIE 5.21 - 13

The problem is I can only get a list of the Top 15 User Agents who accessed the site. So when the full month's stats for August are compiled, browsers such as MSIE 4 are likely to be missed out due to the large number of Netscape 4 versions that appear higher in the list.

My question is this. I've never bothered (ahem) to cater for anything lower than IE6, let alone IE5/Mac. I'm aware of the problems with padding in IE5 on Windows but never allowed for it. What should I be aware of for a site using tables, divs and so on built in XHTML Transitional and CSS?

I'm particularly concerned about IE4. Does it have any major problems likely to ruin the layout? Is there a handy guide to the differences between IE versions and platforms?

[hartlandcat]

Okay, different versions of IE.

I'm assuming you know what Internet Explorer 6.0 doesn't support. No transparent/translucent PNGs, no MNGs (animated PNGs), no SVG images, limited CSS2 support, no CSS3 support and limited MathML.
(sorry, couldn't resist ^_^)

Okay, now I will list the other versions of IE, and will state what other things this browser doesn't support that the next later version did, if that sort of makes sense.

Internet Explorer 5.5:
Even more limited CSS2 support and no MathML.

Internet Explorer 5.0:
Further limited CSS2 support, and a few limited areas of CSS1 --- primarily dashed and dotted boarders. Limited XML support.

Internet Explorer 4.0:
No CSS2 support and limited CSS1 support. I can't list all the CSS1 that IE 4 doesn't support, but it does a better job at it than Netscape 4.

Internet Explorer 3.0
Extremely limited CSS1 support. No DHTML support.

Now, I hope you are not only testing your site in Internet Explorer 6.0, and I hope that doesn't mean you are using lots of non-standard MS propriety code either. Do you already know about what versions of Netscape support what and what? I don't see any Netscape users in your stats, so I'm assuming you've just left them out because you made this topic about IE.

[SuzyUK]

hester..

I know you know your CSS ;) but one of the main things I've found which is worth remebering is that IE5 and 5.5 don't support margin: 0 auto but it will center using text-align center on the parent element.. you just have to remember to reset text-align to left where required then..

Putting IE6 into quirks mode is one of the best ways (not perfect I know) of seeing what IE 5.x gets..

can't speak for version below ie5 but I think they belong in the NN4 category now ;)

IE5/Mac seems to be a different animal altogether and there is a myriad of sites out there with IE5/Mac CSS bugs, which I'm finding out thanks to jamesa, but being without a MAC well it's just too hard to try and filter them all in, but again there's a major biggie which is that all floated elements must have a width declared on them.

Suzy

[hartlandcat]

Something I forgot to mention, I believe that the latest version of MacIE actually has a generally better support for CSS than WinIE 6.0.

[Hester]

Hartlandcat - thanks. I was hoping for specific examples. (Which specific CSS each version doesn't recognise.)

Now, I hope you are not only testing your site in Internet Explorer 6.0, and I hope that doesn't mean you are using lots of non-standard MS propriety code either.

I test my site in Opera 7.11, IE6, Netscape 4.8 and Mozilla 1.4 (all on Windows XP). Beyond those browsers I'd need to buy a Mac or another PC.

I use no MS-only code.

I don't see any Netscape users in your stats, so I'm assuming you've just left them out because you made this topic about IE.

Correct.

[hartlandcat]

I thought that maybe you might be using non-standard code as you said "I never bothered to cater for anything lower than IE6" --- I took that to mean, "I don't cater for Netscape/Opera/Mozilla/Konqueror/Safari either."

[SuzyUK]

I test my site in Opera 7.11, IE6, Netscape 4.8 and Mozilla 1.4 (all on Windows XP). Beyond those browsers I'd need to buy a Mac or another PC.

You can have different versions of NN, Moz and Opera on the one PC, you just can't have the different versions open at the same time..

Suzy

[hartlandcat]

Um, yes you can. I've had Netscape 7.1, 4.8, 3.0 & 2.0 and Opera 7.1, 6.0 & 4.0 all open at once.

[SuzyUK]

hester sorry for this OT question..

HC..
how?
If I have say NN7 open then try to open 6.2 it opens as 7?

what'd I do wrong? ;)

Suzy

[Hester]

I once installed Netscape 7 after Mozilla and it ruined Mozilla. So I don't install Netscape 7 as it's exactly the same engine anyway. The only differences are cosmetic.

I try to cater for as many browsers as possible, while being realistic. Hence this thread.

[hartlandcat]

Netscape 7 will only ruin Mozilla if you use the same profile that you used for Mozilla.

[Hester]

I think that's what happened. Only it ruined the icons in Mozilla, which were all messed up.

[tedster]

I was hoping for specific examples. (Which specific CSS each version doesn't recognise.)

That's a major undertaking for a post, Hester -- but there are several entire sites dedicated to CSS bug documentation. One good reference is RichInStyle's CSS Bug Table [richinstyle.com].

[hartlandcat]

That site is very out of date, but I suppose it's alright for older versions of IE.

[5stars]

Can anyone tell me how to get a hold of older versions of IE, Netscape etc...

And what version of HTML is consider most compatible among all browsers?

Thanks,

Julia

[TheDoctor]

You can get hold of older versions of browsers at [browsers.evolt.org...]

But there are more of them than you might think....

[hartlandcat]

You cannot have multiple versions of IE installed on the same computer. Okay, here are the HTML versions that each browser suppots (I've counted HTML 4.0 and 4.01 as the same, as I don't know what the difference is):

Internet Explorer 6.0: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / partial CSS2
Internet Explorer 5.5: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / partial CSS2
Internet Explorer 5.0: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / partial CSS2
Internet Explorer 4.0: HTML 4.0 / partial CSS1
Internet Explorer 3.0: almost HTML 4.0 / vague CSS1
Internet Explorer 2.0: HTML 2.0
Internet Explorer 1.0: HTML 2.0

Netscape 7.1: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / CSS2 / partial CSS3
Netscape 7.0: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / CSS2
Netscape 6.2: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / CSS2
Netscape 6.1: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / CSS2
Netscape 6.0: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / partial CSS2
Netscape 4.x: HTML 3.2 with loads of add-ons / partial CSS1
Netscape 3.0: HTML 3.2 with some add-ons
Netscape 2.0: HTML 3.2
Netscape 1.0: HTML 2.0

Opera 7.1: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / CSS2
Opera 7.0: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / CSS2
Opera 6.0: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / partial CSS2
Opera 5.0: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / partial CSS2
Opera 4.0: HTML 3.2 with loads of add-ons / partial CSS1 / partial CSS2
Opera 3.6: HTML 3.2 / partial CSS1
Opera 3.5: HTML 3.2

Konqueror 3.1: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / CSS2
Konqueror 3.0: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / CSS2
Konqueror 2.2: HTML 3.2 with loads of add-ons / CSS1 / partial CSS2
Konqueror 2.1: HTML 3.2 with loads of add-ons / CSS1
Konqueror 2.0: HTML 3.2 with loads of add-ons / partial CSS1
Konqueror 1.0: n/a

Safari 1.0: HTML 4.0 / CSS1 / CSS2

In other words... HTML 4.0 is fine to use.