Browser Makers Want Better Exposure On Microsoft Browser Choice Screen

[engine]

Browser Makers Want Better Exposure On Microsoft Browser Choice Screen [news.bbc.co.uk]

Makers of small web browsers want their programs to be given more prominence on Microsoft's browser choice screen.

Six software firms have complained to the EU saying many do not realise their programs were on offer.

To see all 12 web browsers, users must scroll to the right when viewing Microsoft's ballot screen.

"The final choice screen design leaves the vast majority of users unaware that there are more than five browsers to choose from," the six firms said in their petition.

The petition is signed by the makers of the Avant, Flock, Maxthon, Slim, Sleipnir and Green browsers. The makers of the other browser on offer, K-Meleon, did not sign it.

Microsoft Browser Choice Screen For Europe Starts To Roll Out [webmasterworld.com]

Is this now all too late?

[tangor]

No matter what is presented there will be folks unhappy. MS has responded to the complaint and, in my opinion, done a credible job in addressing same. It is, however, a no-win for anyone. I preferred the original response: NO BROWSER FOR EU. Puts choice right where it should be: THE UNEDUCATED AND STUPID USER. However that is not how it finished so here we are. I know five of these browsers. The others never entered my radar, and with Opera at less than 3 percent these others have to be less than that. Life is too short. I do agree that competition needs a level playing field, I just get ticked when those on that level field seek advantage via rules rather than ability.

[MaxthonGuy]

I don't understand why Tangor think choice should be something for "the uneducated and stupid user," which implies the experienced, intelligent user should *not* be give a choice for software;

But I agree with what he complains about those who "seek advantage via rules rather than ability"--except when the rules are rigged. It used to be a rule in the U.S. South that whenever a black person wanted to vote, the African American had to answer some question, such as "Who was secretary of state under President Buchanan?" Election officials never bothered to ask whites the same question because they were already approved, just like the five browsers in the visible portion of the ballot.

[MaxthonGuy]

FutureX didn't do his homework before saying the seven browsers in the back of the ballot have minuscule market shares. When this contest started Maxthon was less than 1 percentage point behind Opera.

[tangor]

MaxthonGuy... I chalk this up to advertising of product and market share. If there is advertising and market share equal to Opera (which is piss poor) then I stand corrected. I live in the USA South and grew up at the end of Jim Crowe. Just as many non-Democrat whites were refused votes as the blacks. Not a good time in my country's history and is a really piss poor analogy on your part.

Wish your browser all the best. Find market share first. Meanwhile, you're on the list of browsers offered. I'd say go from there. In the EU.

[MaxthonGuy]

Hi, Tangor....

When I was growing up in the South, there weren't anywhere near as many non-Democratic whites as there were blacks, until after Lyndon. And I'll stick with the analogy. We're being made to ride in the back of the bus--and then being covered up so no one can see us there. This is segregation--not with the dire consequences of racial segregation by any means--but it's segregation not the less.
And we'll begrudgingly stay where we are. We just want a few words and arrows so people know were there. How is that possibly asking too much?

[futureX]

Can you tell me what sources you are using for your browser market share? Everywhere I look Opera is around 2%->3% and "Other" Is usually <1%, on sources where I can drill down further I cannot see Maxthon at all.

Also I have to say that in 10 years of running websites I cannot remember seeing Maxthon in any web stat reports does it identify as a different browser?

[Amps]

When Joe Public buys a computer, normally he will know whether the CPU is AMD or Intel

Are you having a laugh? In my experience your man on the street, casual computer user, doesnt know what is inside his machine. And really isnt interested either.

[Fotiman]

@MaxthonGuy

FutureX didn't do his homework before saying the seven browsers in the back of the ballot have minuscule market shares. When this contest started Maxthon was less than 1 percentage point behind Opera.

For the month of Feb.:
[gs.statcounter.com...]
According to the raw data, Maxthon 2.0 had 0.19% market share, and Maxthon 1.0 had 0.11% market share (for a total of 0.3%).

Opera 10 had 1.49%, Opera 9.6 had 0.32%, Opera 9.5 had 0.06%, Opera 9.2 had 0.06%, Opera 0 had 0.02%, and Opera 9.1 had 0.01% (for a total of 1.96%).

Based on those numbers, Maxthon had 1.66% less market share than Opera.

I would argue that both browsers have minuscule market share. Granted, there will be variation depending on where you get your numbers from, but I suspect these numbers are at least in the ballpark.

[KenB]

@MaxthonGuy,

Your analogy is extremely disrespectful to those who actually were forced to sit at the back of the bus and the struggle they endured. I'm appalled that you would be so insensitive as to try and compare yourself to them.

Can Maxthon run independently of the Trident engine that is a part of MSFT Windows? No it can not. Maxthon is totally dependent upon MSIE being installed on the computer and when the version of IE is changed (e.g. from IE6 to IE8) Maxthon's rendering behavior also changes. This means that Maxthon IS NOT a true independent web browser. IT IS ONLY a browser skin.

Yes Maxthon may have many features that IE does not have, HOWEVER, at the end of the day it is running on top of what ever version of IE happens to be installed on the computer at that point in time. Thus Maxthon DOES NOT deserve to be treated the same as other true web browsers that are truly free standing web browsers with a built in rendering engine (e.g. Firefox, Safari, Opera, Chrome, Sea Monkey, etc.). Yes other browsers use someone else's rendering engine (e.g. Chrome) but that rendering engine is still built into the browser.

Until the day the rendering engine is built into Maxthon rather than Maxthon depending upon the rendering engine already installed on the computer, it will only be a skin.

Please take your self righteous and insulting self comparison to the civil rights movement elsewhere. It is extremely offensive.

[kaled]

Amps,

I tend to believe that most computer users can read - I may be wrong but that's my assumption. On this basis, they will will certainly know whether there is an Intel thingy or an AMD thingy inside because there will normally be a dirty great sticker on the box and a somewhat smaller sticker on the computer. The Dell Laptop that I am using to type this has an AMD Turion64x2 sticker and a Windows Vista sticker on it.

Of course, whether users care or not is another matter. Nevertheless, retailers have been pushing dual core CPUs for some time and the "Intel Inside" advertising campaign is widely considered to be one of the most effective in history! Also, I have overheard discussions in shops on the subject of AMD vs Intel, so I guess some people do care (but the level of knowledge in those discussions is usually abysmal).

Kaled.

[KenB]

FutureX didn't do his homework before saying the seven browsers in the back of the ballot have minuscule market shares. When this contest started Maxthon was less than 1 percentage point behind Opera.

Using Google Analytics I looked at the last 2.5+ million visits to my site (since Sept 2009) and did not find a single reference to Maxthon in my browser stats. Opera on the other hand was used by 0.68% of my site's visitors. So I guess the statement "Maxthon was less than 1 percentage point behind Opera" was correct since technically zero percent is less than 1 percentage point behind 0.68%.

[tangor]

What I see in this brouhaha is sour grapes. As I said earlier there is no win-win for anyone in this other than EU users will be presented with a choice. That's the plus for EU competition. What seems to be missed is that the screen will only appear if IE is listed as the DEFAULT browser: ie. MS has gone one step beyond by telling users who CURRENTLY use IE as their browser they have a choice, and will unpin it as the default browser.

I stand by my UNEDUCATED and STUPID user statement... because users are, in general, uneducated as to choice and are stupid in making choice decisions (they don't know they have choice). I'm USA so have no dog in this fight.

[drhowarddrfine]

MS has responded to the complaint and, in my opinion, done a credible job in addressing same.

To the contrary, Microsoft was forced to do this or face additional fines.

[tangor]

To-May-Toe, Ta-Mah-Toe. Not worth an argument.

[tangor]

Update via The Register

[theregister.co.uk...]

[drhowarddrfine]

From the first week, Opera reports downloads have tripled while Firefox says downloads from the ballot have been between 50K and 100K.
ArsTechnica [arstechnica.com]

[graeme_p]

I tend to believe that most computer users can read

Optimist! Seriously, they can read, but they may not actually read and remember.

@Maxathonguy, Opera is very popular in some European countries, so it is probably far ahead of Maxathon within the EU.

Personally, I think it is also important to ensure competition between rendering engines, so there are too many Trident browsers there.

[penders]

Just going back to the ordering by rendering engine for a mo...

kaled: It seems logical to me to place all the Internet Explorer clones in one column, all the Gecko-based browsers such as Firefox in another column and then Opera, Safari and Chrome each in their own columns. I think users would be able to understand that.

KenB: Yes Maxthon may have many features that IE does not have, HOWEVER, at the end of the day it is running on top of what ever version of IE happens to be installed on the computer at that point in time. Thus Maxthon DOES NOT deserve to be treated the same as other true web browsers that are truly free standing web browsers with a built in rendering engine (e.g. Firefox, Safari, Opera, Chrome, Sea Monkey, etc.). Yes other browsers use someone else's rendering engine (e.g. Chrome) but that rendering engine is still built into the browser.

I always thought Safari and Chrome used the same rendering engine ie. Webkit? (And when I've had a problem in one; I've generally had a problem in the other - as far as I recall?!)

However, KenB is perhaps suggesting that although Chrome was based on Webkit in the beginning it is now developing independently along a different branch? Or are the two browsers still sharing the same rendering engine, albeit embedded?

[drhowarddrfine]

Yes, both use the same rendering engine but, iirc, they may be at different version levels at any one point in time.